Amy Vaughan:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to our weekly power lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughan, and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital and choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. You can join the movement at togetherindigital.com. And today, I am incredibly excited to have a health care marketing powerhouse, Melissa Fors Shackelford, joining us to discuss breaking stigma with inclusive marketing. Melissa brings over two decades of experience driving growth and visibility for renowned health care organizations, including Optimum, Hazelden, Betty Ford, and Sigma. Evan was never sorry. I’m moving my mic this week. I’m already, like, running into stuff. And Sigma Evan Worth.
Amy Vaughan:
She has been recognized as the American Association’s twenty nineteen nonprofit marketer of the year and named among the top 50 women leaders in healthcare for her transformative work. As the principal of Shackleford Strategies, she is dedicated to helping brands create purpose driven marketing that breaks barriers while building meaningful connections, something that we are very attuned to and very excited about here at Together Digital. Her experience spans go to market strategies, brand development, digital transformation, and data driven marketing initiatives. She also brings a valuable perspective from her board positions as Asbury Communities and advisory roles at multiple health tech startups. With experience that spans behavior health, payer, provider, and health care technology, including international work and proficiency in Japanese. Gosh, Melissa, you just have all these amazing skills and abilities. You bring a truly comprehensive perspective to inclusive marketing strategies. She’s also published a recent book.
Amy Vaughan:
Check it out on Amazon. We will drop the link in the chat live listeners. Harnessing purpose, a marketer’s guide to inspiring connection. I know our members will be excited, and our listeners will be excited to check that out. Melissa, thank you so much for joining us today on the Power Lounge. We’re thrilled to dive in. This is a very important conversation about creating more inclusive marketing strategies that can absolutely make a difference.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Thank you for having me, Amy. I’m just so excited that you and your followers are interested in this topic because it’s a little but sometimes not the sexiest part of working in digital, but I believe that everybody has a part to play.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, it might not be the most sexy, but I would say it has to be some of the most fulfilling. I think some of the most memorable campaigns and work I’ve done or things that have purpose and value. And I think a lot of our members, when they talk about purpose, you know, it doesn’t always have to be work, but it is so great when you can bring purpose into the work.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Isn’t that that’s for me, that’s when it all comes together when you can find purpose and value and meaning in what you’re doing every day.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. Absolutely. It’s a good reason to get up for more than just that paycheck. So let’s start with a little bit about your personal journey before we go into some of your amazing strategies you have to share. I’d love to hear more about your personal journey and what led you to focus on inclusive marketing and breaking stigma in health care specifically.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So I’ve been a corporate, marketing and growth person for many, many years. But about the last seventeen, eighteen, I came into health care and kind of all sides of health care like you mentioned. Mhmm. But it was truly when I spent about ten years at Hazel and Betty Ford, which is the nation’s largest substance use disorder and mental health treatment organization that I really dug into stigma in health care. And I really did because there, I led marketing. And as I was, you know, digging into the data like we do, I discovered our number one competitor was not another organization. It was families that knew they had a problem but did nothing. And so there’s many, many reasons for that.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Accessibility in health care insurance, there’s lots of different reasons, but one of the big factors was stigma. Yeah. So these are families. They realize that they have a problem with, you know, themselves or a family member, and they choose to not get care because, you know, what would the neighbors think?
Amy Vaughan:
Right.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Or, oh my goodness. I can’t take time off of work because what if people at work found out?
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm. And when you think about all these other health care conditions,
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
If someone has breast cancer, they’re not saying, oh my god. What would the neighbors think? Oh my gosh. I can’t take time off of work. It’s these stigmatized conditions
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
That people are feeling that kind of sense of shame and fear and stigma, and that it’s just horrifying. And so for me, that’s really when I really started to dig in to learn more about stigma in health care and see what I and what other people in my type of role could do about it because there’s impact that we can have.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. And this is what I love about these conversations is that while they might be, like, industry specific, it does reach a broader, like, group in the sense that, you know, understanding stigma when it comes to purchasing decisions is huge. That’s a massive unlock for any business that you’re running or marketing for is really not just understanding it is. You’re right. We go straight to competitive analysis and begin to understand what everybody else is doing without actually looking at the person we’re trying to help, which is the consumer, and say, what is holding them back? What is the thing that is making them not make the thing? You know, make this happen, make this purchase, make this whatever it might be. Fill out the form, complete the survey, whatever that might be. And so I think, you know, with health care, I can definitely see how it’s a struggle. But across the board, in any industry, I could definitely see how looking at that stigma and identifying that for your consumer actually gives you an insight that maybe you didn’t have before.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Exactly. There’s so much in so many kinds of facets of our lives, there’s stigma and shame and fear. Yeah. But there’s things we can do to help break that down. Yeah. And health care is just one actually that all of us can help make kind of progress in because all of us are health care consumers. All of us have loved ones who need care too. So it’s an area that I think all of us can have an impact on just in our day to day life as well.
Amy Vaughan:
And so on that note, to dig into stigma more, obviously, is, like, how would you I mean, you define stigma in the sense of, like, getting help and support. Were there other instances within marketing health care that you came across stigma? And then outside of that, even what are some of the more common stigmas that you’ve encountered that brands struggle to address effectively?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So I kind of at a high level in health care define stigma as really negative stereotypes, negative biases, negative perceptions. They’re all kind of made up about individuals with certain health care conditions, and it leads to discrimination. It leads to unequal treatment. It leads to a lot of marginalization of different communities. And oftentimes in health care, it’s things like I mentioned, substance use disorder, mental health.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Obesity.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
It’s HIV. It’s Mhmm. Diabetes. I mean, the list goes on and on. Yeah. For different conditions where people have these kinds of society has these negative stereotypes about people, and then people often internalize that stigma. And it’s this cycle of shame and fear. And so people don’t want people to find out that they have this condition. They don’t wanna ask for help.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yeah. And their fear may be justified because they may have had situations where they were treated with bias or prejudice
Amy Vaughan:
Oh my gosh.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
In the health care system. And my example I use a lot is, you know, if your teenager needs braces, no big deal. You’re gonna ask everyone you know Yeah. Which orthodontist they used Mhmm. And about their experience. No big deal. If your kid has a substance use disorder or a mental health problem
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
You oftentimes are not gonna talk to others because of that fear and that shame, and so you’re probably not gonna get the care that you really need. Mhmm. When I think about all those conditions, they’re all health care conditions. Yes. And there’s health care available for them. And oftentimes, it’s life saving care that’s available.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. No. It’s such a big uphill battle, I’m sure, for health care marketers. And I know that our listeners, even as patients themselves are relating to as you’re, like, reading off that list of all of those things, they’ve sat in a physician’s office. They’ve consumed and seen the marketing and advertising where they have this gross generalized over like, over generalized statements made about them, and it does. It creates a different mindset going into any kind of engagement or, you know, anything like that with another marketing or health care firm. So I think it’s such a smart way to really look at it. It’s understanding your consumer and those deep seated Mhmm.
Amy Vaughan:
Concerns and fears and the things that they may not speak about so that you can maybe be that voice for them. So I’m kind of curious, you know, in that real world impact kind of scenario, if you had any examples of either campaigns or initiatives that you worked on that helped to kind of break down those barriers? Like, now we talked about barriers. We talked about stigma. Like, how then do we actually put it out into the real world? And then if you have any, like, impact that you could share, measurable or not, like, you know, what were some of the results there, and what were the communities that were being served?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So I’ve got two really great examples, and I didn’t create either of them. But my first one that I’d love to share is around HIV, which is one of the most stigmatized conditions. There’s so much societal sort of discrimination and negative negative stereotypes, you know, that that people have made up. And what in the last few years, you see all sorts of advertising from the pharmaceutical companies who have treatments for HIV. Yeah. They have advertisements all over TV during NFL games. What I love is that they just threw stigma out the door. They said, we are not only going to not perpetuate negative stereotypes.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
gonna create positive stereotypes. And in some of the ads, it even says that these are not actors. These are actual people who are receiving these treatments. And they’re in the ads, they’re climbing mountains. They’re paddle boarding on the ocean. They’re getting married. They’re doing all the things. They’re living their best lives.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And I feel like what they’ve done is not only kind of smash the stigma, but they’re showing people that these are people that are living with HIV. These are people living their best lives, living with HIV, and it’s just it’s creating a new version. And I just love it. And then there’s another example that I also love because it’s leaning into the stigma. I used to be on the board of the American Lung Association, and so I was able to learn about a lot of their campaigns. And they could do a campaign about anything. But years ago, they started a campaign that was called saved by the scan, and it was targeting former smokers. Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Because smoking related lung cancer is still one of the most stigmatized conditions. Because, honestly, even if just by me saying it’s smoking related lung cancer versus nonsmoking related lung cancer, we think about those people differently. Mhmm. So people who are current smokers, oftentimes, their doctors will say, oh, you need to get these scans for early detection for lung cancer. But if you’re a former smoker, because of so much shame and stigma, a lot of times, people won’t even talk about that with their doctor. So the former smokers weren’t getting the early detection scan. So the American Lung Association started this huge campaign speaking to former smokers saying you are also eligible for early detection scans, and they were saving hundreds and hundreds of people by doing that. But they, you know, they could have done anything, and they said, we’re gonna lean into an audience that oftentimes is very stigmatized, very kind of with lots of negative stereotypes and shame, and they said, we’re gonna do this because we’re gonna save lives.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And you can still if you’re a former smoker, go to savebythescan.org, and you can see if you’re eligible. It’s really an amazing thing that is transformative and life saving.
Amy Vaughan:
Oh, that’s amazing. That’s so good to know. Yeah. Those are two really great examples. And I know I have seen some of those advertisements on treatments for aids and things like that, and I’ve always been very, very impressed with how intentional, inclusive, and thoughtful they are in their marketing. Like, and they aren’t shying away from the conversation or or holding back on it. And they’re not painting people in, again, that over-stigmatized light that they may have been in the past, which I think is really, really great. And, again, not being so subtle.
Amy Vaughan:
I think sometimes it’s hard for people, but then it allows people to see themselves in the spaces and talk to the people that you need to be talking to. Because when you, again, when you talk to everyone, you’re talking to no one. Right?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Exactly exactly. Exactly. And you had said multiple times it’s about knowing your consumer.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm. Yep. Absolutely. And in both of those instances just shows a great learning and then applying that learning. Oh my gosh. Half the time we see something, we’re like, this is so cool, and then we do nothing with it. So, yeah, I’m kind of curious too. Obviously, you’ve been working in the industry for a while.
Amy Vaughan:
You’ve seen a bit of evolution within health care and marketing and how it’s being done and worked with organizations like Optimum and Hazelden Betty Ford. How have you seen health care marketing evolve regarding the inclusivity over the past decade, and what do you feel like still needs to change?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So I feel like we’ve made a lot of progress. So we’ve made a lot of progress because I think in health care, we understand everyone is a health care consumer. And we’ve made progress in certain things like just changing the narrative in the country. I mean, Oprah just did a prime time special about obesity, and I feel like obesity is a great example. It was something that a lot of people just considered not a disease, but, like, a moral failing. Like, these people don’t have willpower. And I think now with a lot of these weight loss medications that are out there, it’s changing the narrative to say, this is a disease. Right.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
There’s medication available. So you go to your doctor to get this care, and so it’s changing that narrative.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
so I feel like we’re making progress and things like that. We still have a long way to go in certain conditions. I would say substance use disorder is one that we probably have the furthest to go because that is still considered, oh, there’s kind of a moral failing or it’s something wrong with these people rather than saying it’s a disease that there’s treatment available.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm. I imagine mental health probably falls into that same camping category as well. And on that too, you’ve worked you know, obviously, we talked about Betty Ford Foundation. What were some specific lessons that you’ve learned about destigmatizing mental health and addiction issues, as we both mentioned just now, that could be applied maybe in other health care areas?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So I think one great example and something that we’ve had a lot of progress in is around anxiety and depression.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
I think during the pandemic, all of us experienced some level of anxiety and depression just from isolation and loneliness. And I think it really changed a lot of minds that this is normal. It’s okay.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And there is, you know, there’s medication available. There’s care available. There’s, you know, different treatments available. And then we’ve had, I think, which is one of the best things for a lot of these stigmatized conditions. We’ve had some world class athletes come out and talk about their mental health challenges. When you have Michael Phelps, like, the best swimmer in the world, you’ve got Simone Biles, the best gymnast in the world. You have Naomi Osaka, who’s one of the best tennis players in the world. Yeah. Out there talking publicly, being so vulnerable, but talking about their own challenges and to and saying that they’ve gotten care.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yeah. It kind of opens the door for other people. Mhmm. I think we still have a long way to go with substance use disorder because it’s still one people are kinda quiet about. But yeah. You mentioned the Betty Ford Center. So, back in the day when missus Ford, the former first lady, when she got treatment for her substance use, she could have kept it quiet, but she made the decision to be public about it. And that was really one of the first people talking about it publicly and kinda opened the door for women in particular to say, hey.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
This is a normal thing. She’s the former first lady. She just left the White House, and she’s getting care, so you could too. So for me, I think a lot of it is normalizing the conversation. And even though, you know, Simone Biles and Michael Phelps are are people that are so unlike me in many ways, but the fact that they if they can have this
Amy Vaughan:
Right.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Then it’s okay for just a regular old person like me to get care too. And I just feel like it’s changing the narrative and kind of opening the door for conversation just like Oprah has done around obesity recently.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm. No. It’s a great tactic and strategy having influencers, champions, advocates, whatever you wanna call them, ambassadors for whatever that is. Like, I could imagine looking at and finding and identifying those consumer insights that lead you to understand, like, what are the stigmas? What is holding them back? Okay. Well, who do I know is benefiting from this already having made the leap and trusted the process that we can then put in front of others to facilitate that conversation. Because even though, like, speaking of psychology, like, we have those parasocial relationships. Right? Even though I don’t know Simone Biles, I know of her. I’ve watched her grow up.
Amy Vaughan:
I’ve watched her excel. And so in so many ways, like, I am personally invested somewhere deep in my psyche. All of us actually believe that Simone Biles is something of a friend. And so it’s like that best kind of testimonial you could possibly ever get or give is when you have a trusted person speaking on behalf versus, you know, like, you even said earlier too, like, using real people who, you know, are inflicted with aids to come on and be within the advertising versus actors, which I think it’s just it’s such a small thing. But, like, in my example I worked on, a P and G Ventures, of, a product that was for skin care conditions that was all about eczema and, like, what was else? Eczema and, like, other skin conditions that would cause a lot of flaking. And I tell you what, the things that the real users would come on and they would let us film and everything. It was so beautiful, because I’ve done a lot of advertising in my life, but they’re sitting in front of real people that were really truly impacted by the product. And, like, one woman said, like, I would . I was never dating because it was so bad.
Amy Vaughan:
Like, my scalp would be flaking so bad that I would be afraid to, like, put my head on a guy’s shoulder while we were out on a date. And it’s just something like that that you’re like, now she can go out, she could be on her date, and she can do something as simple as put her head on somebody’s shoulder and not be freaking out about what’s gonna be left behind. Like, I don’t know that your everyday average Joe marketer who doesn’t have never been afflicted with something like this would ever have the insight or wherewithal to say, much more to hear it from the person. It’s just it couldn’t even have been directed by an actor to do it as well as she did. It was really cool to sit back and watch.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
That’s just a testament to bringing those into the process that are from the different communities. And yeah. It’s just, like, one of the things I do a lot of work around is accessibility and Mhmm. Bringing in people who are living with different disabilities into the process. Yes. Or whether health care conditions, bringing them in. So you’re not speaking for them. They’re speaking for themselves. That is such a great example because no one else would have thought of that, but also the impact.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
There’s other people in our same exact situation
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
That is thinking that way. And and and it just in general, just if you go outside of health care and individuals Mhmm. That’s where testimonials are so powerful. And that’s where even, like, online reviews are, they’re also powerful because we listen to others in our same situation.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. I know. Because of consumer perception, it can become a reality. Right? So you do talk about accessibility in your book and ways to integrate it. Obviously, we just talked about what you mentioned, like, bringing it into the actual process. Are there any other practical steps that marketers could do or take to ensure that their content and campaigns are truly accessible?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So I always have thought I’m such an inclusive marketer. And years ago, when I was at a health care organization, I had a company come in and do an audit of all of our marketing. And one of the things that they dinged us on was imagery of people living with disabilities. And I was just so personally, like, distraught by that because I actually have a girlfriend who is a model who uses a wheelchair. And I think, like, I should have known someone in my life who’s actually a model in this space. So it was just teaching me that, okay, we need to really be deliberate. We need to show people of all walks of life, all shapes and sizes in our imagery, whether it’s health care or anything else. Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Because people wanna see themselves
Amy Vaughan:
Me too. Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Reflected by the organizations they support. But the one thing I and especially because your audience has so many people that are working in digital Mhmm. I think accessibility and communications these days with the technology available
Amy Vaughan:
Oh, yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
We all need to lean into accessibility from that perspective. Yeah. Accessible websites.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
I mean, closed captioning is so much more than, like, putting the closed captions on your Netflix show. Yeah. And it’s helping people who have English as a second language, people who are hard of hearing.
Amy Vaughan:
Yep.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
There’s so many different reasons to close captions, to do alt tags so that you people can use screen readers because everyone, it’s amazing. Yeah. People with vision loss are using the Internet just like anybody who doesn’t have vision loss. And so that’s where leaning into accessibility from communications isn’t just for health care. Yeah. Hypercritical in health care because
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Everyone needs to get that health care information. But in any industry, making sure we’re really accessible in our communications, particularly in our websites, it’s not really that hard. There’s standards out there to follow. Yep. But that’s one where I think especially people working in digital, everyone can be a champion for that kind of accessibility.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
There’s an economic story to it as well.
Amy Vaughan:
There is. Yeah. No. I was getting ready to say that exactly. Because on the flip side, outside of that, you’re leaving people behind that are potential consumers, buyers like you are. You’re leaving money on the table by not being accessible. You know? I mean, you even see it, like, as simple as subtle metrics as, like, open rates and read through rates on our emails. You know? Adding alt text to our images for our emails actually optimizes our performance.
Amy Vaughan:
So it’s like, if you’re not doing it, you’re just losing out. You’re losing out on performance. You’re losing out on reach, and you’re leaving money on the table. So, yeah, it kinda seems like a no brainer, but you’d be surprised at how many people just resist it because I think they think that maybe it takes too much or it’s too much work. But I think if you look at the return on the investment, it’s well worth the time and energy.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Well, and you look at just how far we’ve come with technology that it’s really not that much of a reach anymore. And yeah. Like you said, there’s an economic impact. When you talk about inclusive marketing, marketing to all these audiences, you think about people with English as a second language. Mhmm. Well, massive audience. Yeah. LGBTQ, community, massive audience.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
People living with disabilities, massive audience. Mhmm. All these things. It’s not only the right thing to do, but there is that economic story because Mhmm. These people from all these different communities want to be seen and heard in your marketing and your communications.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. No. I agree. Yeah. Don’t leave it behind. Alright. Let’s talk a little bit about language and how important the role of language is in breaking stigma. Could you give us some examples of some language shifts that maybe have made a significant difference in healthcare communication? This is like one more dial, right, we can kind of turn accessibility, but also language.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And it’s and it’s something I think that a lot of us can just use in our day to day life when we think about it. There’s a lot of people who suggest that we follow a person -centered language. So I’m not saying he’s an alcoholic, he’s an addict, he’s a schizophrenic. I’m saying he is someone with, we say, a substance use disorder is the preferred term for that. Or they are someone with schizophrenia. So you remove the person from their condition because you don’t say he has cancer. You say he has cancer. So it’s just removing the person from their condition
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Because they’re more than their condition. But then it’s also taking out a lot of that judgmental language, like
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
They are suffering from this illness Oh. And saying instead instead saying they’re living with. So, you know, someone’s, you don’t wanna kind of perpetuate the victim’s pose. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And so it’s just it’s sometimes a subtle shift, but it’s taking that judgment out of it so you’re not kind of leading with shame.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yep. I just think substance use disorder is such an easy example because it was always called substance abuse
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Which, again, there’s so much judgment in that where if you just take that abuse out of it Mhmm. And you call it, like, a medical term substance use disorder, which is the preferred medical term. Oh, wow. Well, then it also just removes a lot of that judgment.
Amy Vaughan:
Right. Right. And then it also begins to lean it towards the language of, like, it is something a disease. And I think it is so it is so subtle, and that is the beauty of, like, the the beauty of and the ugly side of language is it is so easy to just be flippant, but it’s, like, once you start to learn what those nuanced things are, those subtle changes do make a big difference. And so, like, we’ve even said in another good one is, you know, instead of call again, and I’ve I’ve learned, like, the rule is don’t describe like, don’t depend the, the verb, like, or they not the verb, the adverb to the person. Right? You’re not describing them as somebody. It’s like, this is a person with a disability, not, you know, a disabled person. Because it’s like, no.
Amy Vaughan:
There’s so much more than that, so don’t describe them as that. And I thought that was a really good rule of thumb as well.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Exactly. And the one lately, I think, because it’s been such a hot topic is obesity. So for so long, people felt comfortable saying he’s obese. Well, if we just shift it and say he has obesity, he’s living with obesity
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
It’s very subtle, but it takes a lot of that negativity out of it, especially around now people are getting care for the disease Yeah. Of obesity because there’s medications that are treating, you know, treating their disease.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. Mhmm. And, again, it does it just like I said, I think it’s just a good rule of thumb. Just don’t describe people as, like, you do like you said, he’s not a cancer, you would say. He’s cancer. That is such a good rule of thumb to kind of remember too, I think, because we are obviously so much more than whatever we’re living with.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yeah. Yeah. And beyond that, it’s also important, I think, like, if working directly with people to ask them how they would prefer to be described because you’d be surprised Uh-huh. Oftentimes. And so that’s where, you know, like you said before, your example of bringing in the woman who didn’t wanna put her head on the shoulder, asking them to hear from the different audiences themselves is super for me, it’s been super, super enlightening and important. Yeah. And you might think, well, this person over here prefers this term, but this person over here prefers
Amy Vaughan:
Oh, yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And so it’s like remembering that, you know, communities are not monoliths.
Amy Vaughan:
Right. Yeah. Exactly. What is that? The platinum rule or whatever they call it too. Don’t treat others how you wanna be treated. Treat them how they wanna be treated. I love that idea too of asking them what their preferences are first. Alright.
Amy Vaughan:
So oftentimes, you know, we’re marketers and everything gets boiled down to KPIs. Could you recommend some ways in which we could look at measuring effectiveness of inclusive marketing strategies? Again, as we’re kind of trying to advocate, and rally for these efforts and opportunities, oftentimes, we’re gonna be like, okay. Well, how are we gonna measure this? How can organizations know if they are genuinely making progress?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Well, in a lot of it, I point to the conversation we had a minute ago around it being an economic impact. And so when I think about it, I worked with an organization that was struggling with people reading the instructions. And finally, they realized they were overcomplicated. They were in such medical jargon. People couldn’t figure it out. And there’s so many people that either have low literacy or have English as a second language that, oh, wow. Let’s make some changes. Let’s do a lot of testing in the process, and there’s we’ve got amazing UX testing tools these days.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yeah. But let’s do all that shift, and they saw their like, the response rate when they made those shifts skyrocket. Mhmm. And you can’t point it to one specific thing, but all of this was under the umbrella of let’s make it more accessible and inclusive. Yeah. Let’s use more imagery rather than medical jargon. Let’s use a lower grade level. I think for that one, we got it down to, like, a fifth grade level.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And let’s make sure the language we’re using is something that’s easy to use for somebody who has English as a second language.
Amy Vaughan:
Right.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And let’s make sure there’s a QR code. So because everybody’s got a smartphone. They say that they can follow a QR code and have a video pop up, for example. And so when there’s tests like that that you can do so you can’t say, well, that was just because we you know, it’s inclusive marketing or it’s more accessible. But they saw on that particular shift and Yeah. Before and after, response rates skyrocketed. So I think for me and my experience is doing a lot of that testing before and after. It’s hard to say, well, we made our website more accessible, and because of that Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
This happened.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
But what we can do is we can monitor our KPIs before. We can make our website more accessible and follow the kind of accessibility guidelines, and then we can watch it afterwards. So it’s really I think for me, for some of those types of things, it’s hard to say, well, it’s because it was more inclusive. We’re getting more people with Sure. Low vision or something or hearing loss. Well, it doesn’t necessarily mean that, but you’re having an impact.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm. Yeah. You could definitely see a lift. I imagine if it’s, like, more responses, more time on-site again, like, you’re right. Depending upon the project and the initiative and what you’re trying to shift, looking at your key performance indicators before and looking at them after to see if, you know, by making things more inclusive, does this make things, like, more optimized? Are people clicking through more? Are they purchasing more? All of those things can be followed. It actually kind of reminded me. It’s not exactly, like, inclusivity or, accessibility or inclusivity, like, kind of related, but it does talk about this whole, like, we have to just get out of our own way sometimes as marketers and as brands. And there was this one case study I was listening to on a podcast about how this furniture company was in Chicago selling to kind of, like, you know, young professionals getting their first apartment, mostly, like, customized sectionals.
Amy Vaughan:
So, like, very much, like, in the right vein for their audience. And they had loads of people coming into the store on the floor, looking at things, filling out forms, talking about, you know, putting together and designing their couch because they like the idea that it was modular and you could design the outside, all this stuff. And they had loads of people coming into the store on the floor, looking at things, filling out forms, talking about, you know, putting together and designing their couch because they like the idea that it was modular and you could design the outside, all this stuff. But then nobody was buying. They were spending all this time in the store and nobody was buying, and they couldn’t figure out for the life of them why. Well, then they started talking to their customers and asking, like, well, why what helped keep you from buying today? You’re in Chicago.
Amy Vaughan:
Most of these buildings, especially young professionals were saying we because I used to live in Chicago and was a young professional once upon a time many years ago. And, you know, we’re living on Third Floor walk Ups, Fourth Floor walk ups, and you’ve got a whole ass couch that you now have to get rid of, and you have to figure out how to get that other new couch up the stairs. All they did was start adding on delivery service to every purchase, and their sales soared. Skyrocket. That’s So that’s, like, a really good simple example of, like, what you were saying at the very beginning, which is really looking at understanding your audience, asking them what are the barriers for you. And that’s not always just about the price. It’s not always just about the positioning and the branding. Sometimes it’s as simple as a functional issue. If I don’t have a way to, I don’t want to try to get a couch down four flights of stairs and up four flights of stairs. Simple as that.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
But that’s it goes right to speaking to your customer and digging in with them. I mean, honestly, everything starts with market research, and everything starts with talking to your customer no matter what industry you’re in. And but that that I mean, that’s amazing that they did that and that such a scary so much sense. But the fact that they never thought of it ahead of time also makes sense yeah. Alright.
Amy Vaughan:
Exactly. Because it’s like they’re just thinking about the initial sale. They’re not thinking about everything they’re after, which could be another thing worth looking into and digging into. Like, what about your onetime buyers? Why are they buying once? And if you’re spent to be a recurring purchase, why aren’t they coming back? There could be something you’re missing out on in your product or service that keeps them from coming back again. Let’s talk a little bit about executive buy in.
Amy Vaughan:
I mean, because, like, I kind of alluded to it earlier with the last question about measuring success. For marketers who are trying to champion more inclusive approaches within their organization, Sometimes it can be a little bit of a barrier, once it gets so high up. What are some strategies that you have found effective for getting executive buy in and support on these initiatives?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
I think it’s what you mentioned before, it’s the economic story. So beyond everything else, it’s the right thing to do, and real kinds of values driven organizations understand that.
Amy Vaughan:
Yep.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
But, otherwise, it’s really an economic story. And twenty percent of the country is living with a disability, and they have their family members, and so that’s exponential. Mhmm. So you think about that audience. When you think about, you know, people who have English as a second language or people who are native Spanish speakers, all of that. There’s different audiences Mhmm. That you can quantify those people, and you can say, these are people we need to reach. I will use an example about Hazel and Betty Ford when I was there.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
At the time, in one particular state, Hazel and Betty Ford was one of the few substance use disorder treatment providers that could take care, take in, patients that were using wheelchairs.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And we weren’t using that to our advantage because there’s an audience out there that needs it. And so that’s where we did, actually testimonial or, like, a podcast with a gentleman who was in a wheelchair, and that was part of the question. Yeah. Why did you choose this organization? Yeah. He was struggling with other organizations that couldn’t take him. Yep. And so, oh, again, we need to make sure we lean into this because there’s an economic story. Yep.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
It’s the right thing to do. Yeah. As well. But there’s an economic story because it’s also at the time, it was a differentiator to to lean into that. So then, obviously, we had the testimonial of this gentleman that we used all the time because that was important. And you think about these different audiences Mhmm. Offering things in Spanish. Well, goodness gracious. I mean, I could do the math, you know, pretty easily to say how many more people are you gonna reach when you do things in Spanish. Mhmm. So there’s that economic sale to you, the leadership that this is not something that you’re just making up.
Amy Vaughan:
Right.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
This is something that It’s not just a warm puppy. And beyond that, there’s actual kind of compliance for things like having an accessible website, in particular in health care. I mean, people get sued all the time for not having an accessible website because Mhmm. You need to have things available to everyone. So there’s that layer as well that, you know, when you wanna do the kind of the carrot and the stick beyond it all just being the right thing to do.
Amy Vaughan:
And I could definitely see how doing the research and bringing the numbers of those audiences that are maybe not being served. That’s market share. Oh my gosh. Come on, y’all. Do you not want this market share? You don’t want the dollars of those people that, you know, go to a different website and see, like you said, like, I can’t even get into the building, so why would I go there? You know? But if you actually talk about and share the accessibility of your business or what you do, like you said, I think that’s another big point too. We kinda just skimmed over, but differentiator Mhmm. I think so too.
Amy Vaughan:
It really truly shows, especially from a health care standpoint, that you care for the whole person no matter who the person is, and that is a big way to stand out. So differentiating, understanding the target market that they could be missing out on and then that market share overall because at the end of the day, you know, they care a lot about that.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Amy Vaughan:
Gotta speak it in their terms. It’s not just the warm fuzzies here. We’re actually serving more people, which means more money for you all at the end of the day. So I don’t know why it’s even a discussion. But yet it still is, as we all know. Alright. Talk a little bit about digital innovation. What are digital innovations and new technologies helping break down stigma and barriers? And are there any tools or platforms that you’re excited about or currently using?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So I think some of the best things that’s happened in the last few years is really what we talked about accessibility on websites.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And for so many different reasons. Obviously, everybody wants to optimize their website for Google and all of that. Sure. But optimizing it for every audience is critical, and I feel like we’ve come so far where oftentimes people like, version one of your website is gonna come, that it’s meeting some accessibility guidelines.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And so for me, that’s been one of the best things that we’ve done. And, again, if I could say anything to your audience, you know, please become champions for accessible websites because it’s really not that hard. The other thing I kinda mentioned a little bit before is all of the amazing UX testing tools that we’ve got today. I mean, when you years ago, it was so tough and took so much Yeah. Money and time and effort to really get your voice of the customer. These days, you can, like, at the drop of a hat, get people to look at your different Mhmm. Communications, your websites, your apps, everything, and get that instant feedback. And so I think those are also just amazing and really cost effective ways to do it.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
I just remember back in the day where you had to get people in a room, you had to, you know, do all these different things, and you don’t have to do any of that these days because they’re we’ve come so far as far as, on the UX front as well as the accessibility front, and that just makes me more and more excited for the future. The other angle I think and that AI helps us a lot with is personalization. Yeah. And, again, years ago, not well, not that many years ago, it was really a huge lift to truly personalize a lot of
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Communications. These days, it’s gotten so much simpler. And in health care in particular, when I think about health care marketing, the more personalized it feels like this is just for me Yeah. That’s gonna help me to take action.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And versus if it’s something that’s mass marketed and it’s talking about some condition I don’t have or it’s talking about, you know, Medicare, which I’m not on or things like that. And so these days, it’s just like AI has helped us leapfrog so far into the future with everything we can do around personalization.
Amy Vaughan:
Agree. Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And that’s, again, not just for health care. That’s for everybody.
Amy Vaughan:
Everybody. Well and then automation too. Right? Making all of that easier and being more intentional and thoughtful about how you’re optimizing and how you’re personalizing. Because at the end of the day, it’s all building trust. Right?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Vaughan:
Trust, and you need a paramount amount of trust for anything, I think, health care related oftentimes for people, especially those who are in more marginalized situations, you know, that maybe don’t have a reason to trust health care companies, you know, which is a lot of folks. And so, like, how do you make sure that they like you said, they feel seen, heard, valued. And that’s not going to be by sending them blanketed statements that are clearly not speaking to them or that are not clearly for them. It’s breaking that trust rather than building it back up.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Well and that’s even with that speaks to kind of the balance between AI and authenticity. Mhmm. Because when you lean too hard into AI and it doesn’t feel authentic
Amy Vaughan:
Yep.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
That doesn’t help you build trust. No. So that there’s a balance between, oh, we get all this efficiency from the AI, or we really want to be authentic in speaking to our consumers.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
If you think building trust is the most important, then it helps you to balance the two versus just saying we’re gonna be efficient. We’re just gonna break this out with AI.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
That works in some situations. I don’t think it really works when you really need to build trust and make sure you’re really communicating in an authentic manner.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. You’ve gotta keep that human in the loop for sure. And I do feel like there’s been and we’re just gonna have to sit back and kinda eat the popcorn and watch as, like, some companies do. They fall into that trap of, you know, overuse of automation and AI. Somebody recently shared that I went to South by Southwest and said that, like, her favorite quote from the whole week was like, AI won’t replace marketers. It’ll just reveal the bad ones.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yes. There’s I’ve seen so many failures around, kind of AI fails, and it’s shocking sometimes the organizations that they’re coming from or you’re just saying, oh my gosh. Like, I’m so shocked that they let this filter through. But it’s a volume thing. It’s an efficient thing, and they’re just not doing it. But those fail, and we’re all gonna have them. Yeah. They’re teaching us all what to do differently.
Amy Vaughan:
We’re gonna learn whether it’s from our mistakes or somebody else’s. Yep. Hopefully, it’s somebody else’s. Alright. Let’s talk a little bit about meaningful connections because your focus focuses on inspiring connections. I wondered if you could elaborate on the relationship between inclusive marketing and building deeper, more authentic connections with the audience, which is just a great segue from your last comment.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yeah. I really think that purpose driven marketing is really about creating authentic, meaningful connections. And it’s more than just selling products. It’s really making that kind of relationship with your customer, standing for something bigger, being known for what your organization values. And when I think about authentic marketing and I think about or I think about inclusive marketing, it’s the same sort of thing. These are audiences that want to be seen and heard. And when you’re saying I value you and you’re speaking to them in an authentic manner and you’re being really clear about what your organization stands for, what you value, it really creates more than, like, a customer relationship. It really creates brand loyalty.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Mhmm. Because when someone’s seen and feels heard by you and they they understand that your values align with theirs
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
They’re gonna be customers for life. And that’s really what we all want. I mean, you mentioned it earlier in our conversation. You know, we wanna make sure that this is a lifetime customer.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And how do you do that? Because there’s some organizations I’m always gonna go to. There’s some restaurants I’m always gonna go to. Mhmm. You know, there’s just and there’s some that I will go to once or twice, but never go back.
Amy Vaughan:
So yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
It’s really how do I create that real meaningful connection by standing by my values and kind of being, having an organization that is focused on doing something more meaningful than just selling products.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. Well, and at the end of the day too, it reminds me of a podcast guest on here, Nancy Harhut. It’s been forever now. I feel like it’s probably sometime last year. Wrote the book on using behavioral marketing for or using behavioral science for marketing. It’s a great read if you haven’t checked it out, to you and all of our listeners. And she really talks about how every purchase, it doesn’t matter what it is, how big or how small, there is an emotional component to it. We are emotional beings by nature, so everything we do has some sort of emotion behind it.
Amy Vaughan:
And emotion can either drive or detract from any kind of purchase. And, you know and, again, like you just said there, like, you know, you go to a restaurant and you receive amazing service, and you feel so special, and you feel seen and taken care of. Doesn’t matter how crazy, elaborate, fancy, or anything. It doesn’t matter about the meal. The thing you came and you paid for and consumed, the food itself might have been so so, but if the experience and the way you were treated was amazing, you’ll likely come back. Yes. And so I think no. Go ahead.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
I totally agree with you on that. Yeah.
Amy Vaughan:
And then I will say too, again, just, like, looking at the world today, like, values alignment. I’m so glad you brought that up. Values alignment is huge right now, whether marketers want to fully lean into it, acknowledge it, or see it for what it is or not. But people are making purchase decisions not just in the emotional moment of, like, how they are feeling personally. It’s like that emotions of, like, okay. I want to buy from people that I know are doing good things in the world, or I wanna buy from people who are doing whatever. You know? You want to see and feel that values alignment, and, I think consumers more than ever, especially this younger generation when you look at our Gen z market data. That’s where they’re at.
Amy Vaughan:
So it’s like, if you’re not speaking about it, then you’re not speaking to anybody. So you might be suffering from that lack of values expression and those values alignment as well. So I’m so glad you brought that up.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And it’s not just the younger generation, I think. It’s everyone when we think about it. Everyone wants to make sure there’s value alignment. The younger generation is just really talking about it. They are.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And and even frankly in a b to b world, people think, well, it’s a b to b sale. No. No. No. It’s still a human being making that decision. Exactly. It’s still relationships and still making sure you have a meaningful connection is what’s gonna make them a loyal customer for life.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And that loyalty, man, pays for itself if you can meet them.
Amy Vaughan:
Exactly. It does. It does.
Amy Vaughan:
So do what you can. Alright. Let’s get to a couple of our rapid fire questions or not so rapid fire questions. We’ve got time, which is great. So I am curious. What is a one inclusive marketing practice every brand should implement tomorrow? I kinda guess I might guess what it is, but you go ahead and tell me what you think.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Well, I’m gonna say, especially for your audience, it’s an accessible website and accessible communications. It’s really not hard, but that’s the one thing I’d really like to ask everybody who’s kind of working in digital Yeah. Be a champion for that. It’s not hard. It’s No. So it makes such a difference.
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And it really should just be table stakes for all of us these days. And we’re not quite there
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
But we’re getting there. And and so that’s the one I would just say, like, champion that. Mhmm. And it’s for so many different reasons. Like Yeah. I think I love closed captioning, and I’m not hard of hearing. Right. But I’ve also lived in other countries where I need to have the closed captioning to understand the language, and I understand how people who have English as a second language are using that.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So it’s just it’s really about how you cast the widest net and make it available to everybody.
Amy Vaughan:
Impact. And, I mean, most of the things that you would do to make a site accessible, it’s kind of like I set it and forget it. And then and then anything else outside of that, it’s just a matter of working it into the process and workflow. And it just kinda happens. It’s like, you’re saying, it’s, like, sucks to say it, but it isn’t hard. But the impact is so great and very beneficial. Name a brand that you think is setting the gold standard for inclusive marketing right now.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So I might say two. But okay. Yeah. One I just think is it’s just such an obvious choice is Fenty. Fenty beauty and Fenty Oh, yeah. Clothing line. Because Fenty beauty so it’s Rihanna’s makeup line, and she has more colors available from foundation than anybody else. Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So she doesn’t actually have to write it out and say, hey. We’re for everyone. Yeah. She’s saying that through her practice.
Amy Vaughan:
The product. Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And then for her clothing lines, she has more sizes available Yeah. Than anybody. So, again, she’s saying, listen. We’re for everyone because she’s making that available. It’s just making a statement without making a statement. Yeah. I love that. Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
The other one I just have to say because I love it so much, and I I I just teared up when I’ve seen some of their commercials is and Microsoft is a massive company, but they’ve done some really amazing work around accessibility, and they did a commercial a while ago, that was for kids and Xboxes. Uh-huh. Which every kid in everywhere wants an Xbox. Yeah. They had accessible controllers. And it was so sweet to see kids at play. Yep. And we all want kids to be able to play.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yeah. But these were kids who were being excluded from playing with their friends on the Xbox, but then Microsoft made new adaptive controllers, and it just changed. And it was just like, I just tear up thinking about what sweet stories Uh-huh. Kids being able to play with their friends.
Amy Vaughan:
Right.
Amy Vaughan:
And how much more likely again, you’re speaking to those folks that need the inclusion, but then now you’re also clearly touching on consumers that are just aware of that and want to see that. And I think that that’s like, again, it’s that it’s that double sided benefit of inclusivity outside of that bigger market share and reach that you’re getting. You’re also affecting and impacting those who aren’t even in that space that are just like, I see you. And I know that you’re doing this, and I know that you’re doing this, and I know that you’re doing this, and I know that you’re doing this, so I am going to choose you. And I think the two things I love about both of those examples that you just gave too is I think in the past, we’ve seen a lot of performative inclusivity Mhmm. For the sake of, okay. Well, you know, it’s maybe the right thing to do. It’s the warm fuzzies, but it’s not an action.
Amy Vaughan:
Both of those examples that you just shared, they’re not just saying it. They’re doing it. Like and in Rihanna’s instance, she’s not even saying it. She’s just doing it. So I do think those are great examples. I love both of those things.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Yep. Yep. I’ve been on the other end before where people have said your marketing is so inclusive. You have such diversity in your marketing. Yeah. But in reality, the company is not. So I’ve been on the other side. So yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
You have to be careful about the performative, like, just making it look like something is happening and not really doing it. You have to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.
Amy Vaughan:
Yes, you do. These days, people will find out. Yeah. Exactly. They will share. Yep.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Believe me. I’ve been on that side. I’ve been on that side.
Amy Vaughan:
That is no fun. Yeah. It is not a fun place to be. It’s such a good point. Such a good point. Alright. I also meant to say live listeners, we’ve just been so engaged in this conversation. I know you’re here, but I also wanna remind you, please drop your questions in the chat if you have them as well because I wanna make sure that you all get to ask what you would like to ask if there’s anything specific you wanted to ask Melissa.
Amy Vaughan:
And then I’m gonna go ahead and drop in the Amazon book link so you can check out that. And then I’m also going to drop in her LinkedIn so that you all can connect with her if you’d like as well.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
I love to connect with people, and I love to have conversations around all these topics like we’re having today, Amy.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. No. Me too. This is, like, this is my jam for sure, and then I just pasted it in the wrong chat. You know, it’s so Friday, and I’ve been two weeks without a podcast episode. I forgot how to do it all. There we go. Alright.
Amy Vaughan:
Awesome. So those links are in the chat live listeners. We have a few minutes left. If you wanna jump in and ask any questions, we’d love to hear them. But in the meantime, we’ll continue on with our power round questions. What is the biggest misconception about inclusive marketing
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
that you’d like to debunk? So we’ve talked about it a lot, and I really appreciate that we’ve had this conversation. It’s not just nice to have. Inclusive marketing is also a revenue generator.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
And that’s the part where sometimes it’s shocking to me how organizations push back. Where is it? Why would you push back when I’m trying to reach older adults? Why would you push back when I’m trying to reach Gen z? Why would you push back when I’m trying to reach non native English speakers? Of course, I should be reaching all these audiences, and it’s these days with technology, it’s not that hard Yeah. To reach them, but I need to prioritize them. But there it really should be under the category of revenue rather than expense.
Amy Vaughan:
Yes. Oh, I like it. For each. That should be like a nice big billboard. Inclusivity equals revenue. I love it. Alright. If you could change one thing about how health care marketing is, is marketed health care is marketed globally, what would it be?
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Well, I think I’ve mentioned it earlier, but for me, it’s remembering that everyone is a health care consumer.
Amy Vaughan:
Yes.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
So you’re a health care consumer. Your family are health care consumers. Your neighbors are, you know, your friend from high school. Everyone is a health care consumer. And when we look at it with that lens, I think we approach things differently
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Because this is something for everyone, and everyone deserves to be able to get the care that they, that they need and often life saving care. And like we talked about, sometimes when there’s too much stigma in society or fear and shame, people aren’t getting that care. Or if people just don’t think that you’re an organization that will welcome them
Amy Vaughan:
Yes.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Then they’re not gonna get that care. And we have so much available today that we should make sure we keep that top of mind. Everyone is a health care consumer.
Amy Vaughan:
Absolutely. Which is one of the few instances where you can say that. Right? Yeah. Sometimes you’ll ask clients, what are your who are your target markets? Who are you talking to? They’re like, oh, more for everyone. You’re just like, flipping the table. But in this case and in this instance, absolutely, you are talking to every individual because every person is gonna be at some point.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
When I was working with substance use disorder
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Again, it doesn’t discriminate. And so you could say it’s anyone. So that’s a difficult one when you think about how you reach that audience because anyone could be touched. And in fact, with the number of people who are who are touched by substance use disorder
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
I mean, everyone knows someone. If it’s your sister, brother, cousin
Amy Vaughan:
Mhmm.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
You know, neighbor down the street, your friend from high school. Everyone knows someone. And so when you think about that, a lot of these health care conditions don’t discriminate.
Amy Vaughan:
Yep. No. Absolutely. I agree. Alright. Melissa, thank you so much. That’s all the questions we have for you today, and it looks like we’ve got a listening audience that is just listening intently. So we’re so happy that you came to join us today to share these incredible insights with our Power Lounge audience.
Amy Vaughan:
Your strategies for breaking through stigma and inclusive marketing are not just timely, but absolutely essential for brands that want to create a meaningful impact in today’s world. And for health care marketers, I mean, y’all, you’re technically saving lives. It’s so funny. Oftentimes in advertising, we’re like, we’re not saving lives here, but you all doing inclusive marketing in these ways with these strategies that you’ve shared with us today literally are helping save lives. So listeners, we’re so excited. If you get the chance to check us out on YouTube, we’ve got a YouTube channel. We also have our podcast streaming anywhere and everywhere you can stream podcasts. If you have found value in today’s conversation, I encourage you to check out Melissa’s book, harnessing purpose, a marketer’s guide to inspiring connection.
Amy Vaughan:
We’ve dropped that link in the chat for our live listeners. We’ll include it in the show notes as well. You can get that on Amazon to read. And if you’re not yet a member of Together Digital, I invite you to join our diverse and collaborative community of amazing women who are helping each other in all things digital and life because they are amazing, and they make every day better even when things are hard. So that’s all for this week. Melissa, thank you again for joining us. It was an absolute pleasure. I love these kinds of conversations.
Amy Vaughan:
Thank you for doing what you’re doing.
Melissa Fors Shackelford:
Thank you, Amy. This was amazing. What a great conversation. Made my day.
Amy Vaughan:
I’m so glad. Alright, everybody. Until then, we’ll see you next Friday. We’ll be back again next Friday. Yay. Because we’re back on our normal schedule. So we’ll see you then. Until then, keep asking, keep giving, and keep growing.
Amy Vaughan:
Bye.
