Amy Vaughan:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to our weekly Power Lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversations from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughan and I am the owner and Chief Empowerment Officer at Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital and choose to share their knowledge, power and connections. You can join the movement@togetherindigital.com and today we are tackling one of the most pressing challenges digital teams everywhere are facing, and that is how to embrace AI responsibly without getting overwhelmed by the technology or the ethics. Our guest, Nikki Ferrell, is a communication leader and AI strategist who has walked this path firsthand. And as the Associate Director of online enrollment and Marketing and Communications at Miami University, Nikki launched an AI steering committee to address what she calls the rapid, messy adoption of generative AI in higher education. So big task there. With AI already impacting how teams work and whether or not leaders are ready or not, Nikki’s approach of starting small, building clear guard rails, and fostering transparent experimentation offers a great roadmap for anyone, any leader, anyone looking to champion technology that uses and centers on people, purpose and ethics.
Amy Vaughan:
So welcome, Nikki. We’re excited to have you here today.
Nikki Ferrell:
Thank you for inviting me. I’m very excited to talk.
Amy Vaughan:
Absolutely. So I actually had the pleasure of seeing you speak at Scentsy AI Week here in Cincinnati, and that room was packed. A lot of us, you know, in a multitude of areas and arenas, are really looking at how do we leverage and use AI and how do we do so in a way that feels, you know, a little bit guided when we don’t quite know, like, what the roadmap actually is. We’re kind of planning it as we’re driving it, or, you know, building the plane as we’re flying it, as a lot of us would say. And you’ve described AI adoption, especially in higher education, as a rapid and messy process. What was it that made you realize that your team needed a formal structure around AI rather than kind of just letting it happen however it happened?
Nikki Ferrell:
Yeah, so I started actually the a master’s program. So I work at Miami University and I started taking a graduate class on writing, business professional writing. And in that class we were asked to do a white paper style paper on any topic in our field. So I did it on AI and marketing. And this was in late 2023. So ChatGPT launched in early 23. So it was something that folks were talking a lot about, you know, playing with, experimenting with. And it has obviously grown in leaps and bounds in quality since then.
Nikki Ferrell:
But it chatgpt was the first major consumer large language model that got popular. So I started doing that research and looking into AI and marketing, who was using it and it, I found some really startling things like, you know, a university, Vanderbilt University, one of the colleges, sent out an AI generated email about a tragic event and got a lot of backlash for using AI for, for this personal communication. And that’s the one that really sticks out to me the most. But of course there’s a lot of other instances of AI being used in marketing in that, especially in that early time when companies got backlash or were criticized or used it in risky ways. And so our department and our university hadn’t started talking about policy for AI yet at this point. And I chatted with my boss about it and she agreed that we needed to, you know, get something together to, you know, help guide people. And you know, I think that one of the big stats that I keep, that I see and it’s changed every year, but 80% of marketers, you know, are using AI in their jobs. But only 20 some percent of companies actually have policies or guidelines around AI use.
Nikki Ferrell:
So if you, whether you have the policies or not, they’re using it. And if you don’t have policies, if they think that they’re not allowed to use it, they’re still using it, they’re just not telling you. And that makes it a big risk, I think, for, for companies. So that’s kind of how it started.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah, that’s amazing. So I know a lot of our live listening audience which. Hey friends, thanks for joining us and listening live. A lot of you are in this boat. Either you are running a business or you’re a part of a business or company that is obviously adopting. We’re in the 80%, right. And I think a lot of us probably fall within that 20% as well. And oftentimes I feel like when it comes to the shiny new objects within marketing, we are so afraid we’re going to end up being the tail that wags the dog.
Amy Vaughan:
But that really gets us into some trouble. As your example, you know, that you stated, really put it. And so I think, you know, creating a steering committee I think is really, really smart. We had a member on as a guest a while back several months ago too, who worked within an agency and created a steering committee for AI. And you know, a lot of learning and listening to other folks who are doing this within companies is like a great place to start. I mean outside of listening to today’s conversation, finding other people Outside of your company who are creating these steering committees and guidelines, like, because there is no book or rule book written, finding others who are going through this is a really, really. I think it’s a great, great way to kind of even, even the playing field in some ways and not feel like you’re the only one trying to figure out it all out. So for those of you who are listening, live listening audience, please drop questions in the chat if you have them.
Amy Vaughan:
We’d love to hear from you and know what it is you’re sort of dealing with and struggling with. And then for you, Nikki, I was kind of curious, like when you were walking into that first AI steering committee meeting, once you’ve established that we are going to do this, what were some of the biggest fears or concerns that you heard from team members about the idea of even just creating AI integration within what you do?
Nikki Ferrell:
So the biggest, I mean, the biggest concern is the same that we’ve all heard. AI can’t replace human creativity and they’re worried that we will try to let AI replace human creativity and innovation. And so I think that there was some reluctance about using AI, but there was not reluctance about having this committee. I think that the folks who are most concerned about AI were also in support of having guidelines and policies for using AI and adopting it responsibly. We also started with a lot of research. Like I said, I was in a grad class at the time and I had to create this white paper. And so I gave it to my boss to use as a. I made it a justification or a, you know, a roadmap for this committee and what we would do and why.
Nikki Ferrell:
And she didn’t need it. She already wanted me to do it anyway.
Amy Vaughan:
That’s good.
Nikki Ferrell:
But, you know, this whole effort has been grounded in research and information and education. I think that is such an important piece of it to ensure that you are using, working with the best information available, that you know what you’re getting into, that you understand the risks, and that even folks who are not adopting AI themselves at least have a border, a baseline education about it. Because in our feed marketing especially, it’s. It’s really important for everyone to at least have that knowledge, that baseline knowledge of what it is and what it’s doing. Because even if you’re not using it yourself, you will encounter it in this field and probably in every field moving forward.
Amy Vaughan:
Absolutely. And it sounds like the kind of whole learning research mindset really helped. Right. Make this kind of happen. And I know a lot of you that are listening, are probably sitting in spaces that we’re new is not always the best. And it can be scary. So I think that taking that mentality of like, we’re here to learn, we’re here to research, kind of even presenting it as like an academic exercise, even within a corporate environment could be a really good way to sort of break through any barriers you might be coming up against. But I love that you had that support.
Amy Vaughan:
But it also sounds like you were very clear on the why as well, you know.
Nikki Ferrell:
Yes, it was very much. I had a great, you know, starting argument for why this needed to happen and nobody could really disagree with that.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
I think that aligning your proposal with your mission, with your company or your organization’s values and mission is a really, is also, you know, of course, a great way to not only do the work that contributes to the big picture, but also get buy in from. From leadership on whatever you’re trying to do.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. Which is what you have to. Right. There’s just no way around that. You definitely have to get the buy in from the top. So my next question for you is that, you know, in some of your stuff that you submitted to us, you mentioned that AI use can go underground when there’s no clear guidance. What does that look like in practice? I’m curious. And why is that problematic for organizations?
Nikki Ferrell:
So I’m happy to say we didn’t catch anyone on any underground use of AI in my direct experience. But with looking around at AI and how it was being used and how it’s still being used, there’s data, there’s research and surveys that come out where people talk about, I use AI at work and I don’t tell anyone because we’re not allowed or even just anecdotally in conversations with other folks at events like this. And I think that it’s really important for it not to be underground. Even if you don’t have a formal committee or policy yet, hopefully you can work your way towards that goal. But leadership should be ambassadors of AI and champion its use, its use in a responsible manner. So that means talking about how they have used AI today or how encouraging others to share their use cases and examples and to let folks know that it’s okay to experiment. And we have to experiment in a way that is responsible. So I think that kind of, if you’re a leader in an organization where you feel that that might be happening, but you don’t have policies or you’re not there yet, at least start educating your team.
Nikki Ferrell:
And you know, in Informal ways on Slack create a culture of openness and experimentation so that because you risk your team using it and without understanding that they, that AI large language models will, you know, have biases. And not just in what you see with their, with the content that they create, but with how they answer your question or how they. How it approaches your question. Because, you know, you need to people. I think that users have to understand some of those. Those things so that they can use it in the most responsible and ethical way.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
And ask, you know, encourage your, your staff to learn together. Let’s ask questions, let’s figure this out. You know, and like I said, that culture is a really important piece. It’s a great way to start if you can’t or don’t have the policies in place yet.
Amy Vaughan:
I love that. Yeah. It just made me think, AI is the elephant in the room for so many businesses right now.
Nikki Ferrell:
It shouldn’t be.
Amy Vaughan:
And for some places, I mean, again, we’re a small business over here, so we’re just like, bring it like AI, something that’ll help us work faster, smarter, by all means, you know, bring it on. But you’re so right. It’s for some people, though. I think it is. It’s the elephant in the room that they’re afraid to address. And that fear is driven by a lack of knowledge and understanding. And I don’t think people realize how empowering it is to actually allow people to say it is okay to come in and play and explore. Here’s the guidelines.
Amy Vaughan:
Here’s like, where we like draw some lines.
Nikki Ferrell:
Because creating start without creating your own best practices. If you don’t have time to do that. Yeah, there’s so many out there already. Marketing AI Institute is a great place to start. It’s not just marketing their guidelines, they have Creative Commons policies that we adopted or principles that we changed and adapted for our uses. And there’s a ton of resources out there. And you could, you could take 15 minutes to just send out a note to your team here, you know, before you do it, please go. You know, learn a little bit or we follow these best practices.
Amy Vaughan:
Right. Because like you said, then you don’t have to have be fearful of people going rogue and misusing it and abusing it and then your business being under fire because of it. So, yeah, I love that advice. That is so great. All right, let’s get a little tactical because we love to get into the nitty gritty for marketing. For a marketing leader who wants to start an AI initiative, say, you know, tomorrow what is the first step that you recommend that they would take?
Nikki Ferrell:
So I think the first thing to remember if you’re thinking about this is that you don’t have to be a leader in your organization in order to make this kind of change. And on top of that, the leaders in your organization have less time and less familiarity with the day to day work that you’re doing to know what kind of guidance and policies you need. For us, I’m, you know, I was, I’m an associate director, I wasn’t managing anybody when I started this and you know, I was four or five levels down in my org chart. But I’m the one who’s benefiting from using it and using it every single day and understanding what people need and what people, what my colleagues might want. So first of all, I think that it’s important for people to realize that any love you at any level in this, in your organization. You should feel empowered to get this conversation started. And I think for us, the first thing we did was I made that proposal. I didn’t have to, but it’s a great place to start.
Nikki Ferrell:
Especially if you think that you might not, you might struggle with. Buy in, do your research and look at the, and identify the risks that your company, your organization faces from AI, both from using it and from not using it. Because that, you know, your leadership is focused on making sure that your organization succeeds. And so think about how your committee or how adopting AI could benefit the organization as a whole. And then think about culture, you know, your, your colleagues and you know, creating a culture where professional development is encouraged and championed. And all those things are part of our AI principles that you know, we are looking at it not only as a tool to help us as a division improve and improve the mission and reputation of Miami University, but also how it impacts us as individuals, as professionals and how this adoption helps bolster our culture, our work culture and the expertise and innovation of our team. So think like a leader when you’re trying to put together your proposal for this. And then if you get the, okay, we started with principals, then policies about AI use and now we’re moving into education.
Nikki Ferrell:
So creating a library and trying to get as much education research out to our colleagues as possible.
Amy Vaughan:
I love it. That’s fantastic and I love that advice. So all of that great soundbite there of taking the lead, you know, I think a lot of us people are afraid, right? They’re worried about job security like you stepping in and taking the lead and creating the practices and the policies and Taking ownership of learning this and then sharing what you learned like that. You’re right. You don’t have to have a title in order to lead in that way. Like, this is a great opportunity to step up into that role, into that space and do that. And that’s a lot of, like, what Lexi, the past guest that I mentioned as well, really shared. Nobody asked her to do this.
Amy Vaughan:
She’s like, oh my gosh, it’s coming and it’s coming fast and we need to know how to respond, you know, and honestly, for her too, it. It led to some better opportunities. Like, I think she got a promotion out of it and now she’s in a whole. Another role. They added AI to her title. So, like, there’s benefits all around for you in that way.
Nikki Ferrell:
I hope my boss is listening.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
Yes, please. Promotion, that would be great. Noted.
Amy Vaughan:
Come on.
Nikki Ferrell:
Yes.
Amy Vaughan:
Let’s show Nikki the love for taking the initiative and doing all this because, yeah, it’s such, it’s such an added benefit because it is one of those things where once you create those practices and those policies and the education and people are comfortable and you are using it, these efficiencies alone that you gain the money that they’re going to save now by using it and using it well. Yeah, they should just take that money.
Nikki Ferrell:
And give you some more.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
Now I won’t say. I will say. They. I. It has without. It’s led to a lot of growth and development for me and it’s, you know, it has definitely increased my footprint or my. Yeah, you know, my, my presence.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
My visibility exactly. Around the university.
Amy Vaughan:
I love it.
Nikki Ferrell:
So if you’re looking for that, that’s another. Yeah, exactly. It’s a great, great way to get it 100 right.
Amy Vaughan:
Embrace it. All right, so your research, it focuses a lot on transparency, authorship and trust in human and AI collaboration. How do these academic insights inform the more practical policies that you’re creating?
Nikki Ferrell:
So one way, one thing that I love to repeat over and over again is if you’re not comfortable writing AI or ChatGPT as a byline on your. What you’re creating, if you’re not willing to sign that and say AI helped me in this way.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
Then don’t. Don’t use AI for that thing. So, you know, that doesn’t mean that we always. That, you know, are. We want to be transparent about AI use, but we aren’t going to. It’s not reasonable to, to put ChatGPT on every digital ad that we used that we helped that ChatGPT helped us brainstorm the taglines for. Right, yeah. So does.
Nikki Ferrell:
It doesn’t mean that you always. We don’t necessarily say that you always have to put it. But if you wouldn’t feel comfortable admitting that AI helped you with this task, then don’t use AI to help you with that task. I think that’s a really, That’s a great guiding principle. Yeah. A nice way to kind of help draw the line. Right. Because it’s nuanced.
Nikki Ferrell:
I mean, sometimes it’s, you know, I, you know, writing emails. You know, if we had a policy that said AI can write emails, then does that mean that it can write emails from the president to the whole university about a tragic event? You know, so it’s, there’s a lot of nuances in policy and guideline creating. And so there’s a lot of, you know, that guiding principle of, you know, would it be okay if everyone knew that you use AI for this? It kind of gets right at the heart of it, right?
Amy Vaughan:
It absolutely does. And like you said, it’s like you have to think through all of the use cases. Right. Because obviously there’s so much more even than just generative AI. But in the case of generative AI, even that is just a lot to unpack and looking at the opportunities for messaging and optimizations within messaging and where it makes sense and really where it doesn’t. And I love that idea that it’s such a great guiding principle. Like, if you wouldn’t put AI in the byline as a co author, then, yeah, maybe you should rethink using it at all to begin with because, yeah, 100%, you’ve got to be sensitive. And this is a conversation I feel like even before AI with automation.
Amy Vaughan:
Right. So I used to work on which brand was it? I think it was a curel. And you know, this has happened a lot with brands. I mean, but this was like 12 years ago, maybe 13 years ago, and they had done like a Mother’s Day email blast based on some insights. And what they had not considered was that there were a lot of people out there who had lost their moms. And, you know, thank goodness there was some, sadly, there was somebody on our team who had lost their mom in the last two years and she’s like, I am putting the kibosh on this campaign. Like, you just cannot assume that every person you’re emailing has a living mother right now. And I think instead of trying to blast and automate, like, we really probably should find a different way to message and Just position this like we can take advantage of Mother’s Day, but we need to find a way to do it that is like cognitive and sensitive and not a blanket.
Amy Vaughan:
So, yeah, Lou’s agreeing with me in the comments. Mother’s Day campaigns are the worst. And they, and I’ve definitely seen people over the last decade sort of take that into consideration. But it was so funny because we were just, you know, all, all steam, full steam ahead on all these kinds.
Nikki Ferrell:
Of things, ready to hit send.
Amy Vaughan:
And then we’re like, oh, gosh, like.
Nikki Ferrell:
I mean, that’s where the humans, that’s where the human, you know, touch comes in with any technology is that context, rhetorical knowledge that humans have that AI cannot have. You know, we have to provide that if. Or we just make, you know, the decisions ourselves.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
So that’s a really important part of it. And you know, speaking of talking about transparency and authenticity, there’s a lot, a ton of research out there about marketing using AI marketing. That was one of my, in my master’s program, I wrote a focus paper, a focus inquiry about how should higher ed marketing, how transparent should higher ed marketing be with how they’re using AI and how do they decide and how do you make policies about that? And I found that it was interesting. I did some research on the different generations because obviously with higher ed, a huge chunk of our audience is Gen Z and now Gen Alpha.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
And how do they feel about it? And Gen Z and Gen Alpha are less accepting of AI than older generations. Wow. These are things that you’ve got to know if you’re going to use AI. Interestingly though, they also were okay with interact with AI being used to message to them much more if it was like a bot.
Amy Vaughan:
Okay.
Nikki Ferrell:
Hi, I’m Nikki. I’m an AI bot. I’m going to help you register for classes or answer your questions or help you around the website. But for other things where, if they were given an example of getting an email that said in the, in the bottom, you know, AI helped generate this email that was much less okay to them than that because. And it was signed by like a person.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
That was much less okay to them than an AI. 100% transparent AI.
Amy Vaughan:
It’s either one or the other.
Nikki Ferrell:
Yeah, that’s what it kind of feels like. So, you know, you’ve got to do your research and know your audiences and understand how they see this and understand what their expectations are. And so, you know, basically what the paper, my conclusion was, basically, we need to be as transparent as cultural norms expect us to be so today, you know, we people expect to know what you know when they’re being spoken to by an AI versus by a human. In 20 years, will that still be true?
Amy Vaughan:
Right?
Nikki Ferrell:
I don’t you know, that might not be so I think that the important thing about transparency and authorship is understanding your audience, being really in tune with that and establishing trust by listening to them and responding to, you know, how they expect to be communicated to.
Amy Vaughan:
So that is so interesting. I’m curious in your research did you find that like so AI in your use for messaging to them not such a fan of but for them using AI, are they like adopting to it themselves?
Nikki Ferrell:
They so the gen Alpha and gen Z’s are less by the statistics are less enthusiastic about using AI. But what’s interesting is this program that I’m in is a English program redder and composition and I’m studying specifically AI in marketing. But a lot of my colleagues are looking to get their PhDs in English and then go on to teach and be professors. So a lot of what we talk about is pedagogy and teaching and how AI, how you can teach with AI, how human machine teaming works with writing, how what students should know or should they be expected to be open to using it or expected to use AI. Is it okay if they use AI to help them write a paper? How much of that right. And a lot of the research that we’ve read in the past, just the past two and a half years since large language models exploded, students are very hesitant at first and then they try it and they get as they get more familiar with it, they tend to be more accepting of it. And it’s I have to plug my professor Heidi McKee, if you guys are into reading academic papers, you should look her up. She wrote a paper right around the time that I was in this class at the end of 2023 and she had students in her class, required them to use AI or told them they could use AI however they wanted in the whole class and some of them didn’t touch it.
Nikki Ferrell:
Some of them, one of them became like she said, the AI became her best friend during that class. So very interesting differences in how they adapt to it. But I think the big underlying thing is a lot of the fear and hesitation about using AI and adopting AI comes from not being familiar with it, thinking that it’s an all or nothing thing, that it either does the whole paper for you or you don’t touch it. And there’s so much in between those two extremes. And I Think that as folks get more used to that, they become more open to it and, you know, transparency becomes less of an issue. So I think as AI becomes, you know, domesticated in the, you know, in our culture, it’s, it’s going to be less and less of an issue. But we have to listen and keep, yeah, keep letting, keep disclosing until we’re told we don’t need to anymore. Right.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah, yeah. Footnote, we’re not AI. We’re real humans, I promise.
Nikki Ferrell:
Yes, exactly. Yeah, that’s true.
Amy Vaughan:
We almost have to caveat.
Nikki Ferrell:
I was just gonna say, I don’t know how to prove it. There are, there are three Rs in Strawberry, and that’s how. One way to prove it. Right. I know how many Rs are in Strawberry.
Amy Vaughan:
Yep. That is so funny.
Nikki Ferrell:
Yeah, there’s three. I had to check.
Amy Vaughan:
You’re like, wait, is that right? Let me write this down. That is. And it’s, you know, and I, I know so many people and. Okay, Chef, that’s you, Lou on there. She is a great example of people who have become so attuned to the tool and understanding how to train the generative AI tools that they use that it, it really. You can tell who is a seasoned AI user, unfortunately, and you can tell who’s not. And I can sit alongside someone who has not done a ton of prompting or created projects or their own bots and those who have and like the quality. It’s almost like I had this conversation last week with a friend of mine who’s a photographer.
Amy Vaughan:
It was kind of like going from film cameras to digital cameras. It was so scary to be like, we’re not shooting for film. It’s digital. You can point and shoot, shoot. You can see the picture before it’s developed. Like, there was all this fear behind it. But it’s like if you kind of come in and you, you know, the craft. Right.
Amy Vaughan:
So whatever it is you’re trying to train AI on, you have to have knowledge of the craft and what you’re trying to teach it to do, but to be able to have that plus the ability to kind of, you know, prompt it for what you need. I have been super, super surprised by, you know, as a tool, because that’s what AI is, right? It’s not a replacement. It is a tool tool. How much, you know, people’s work has, like, broadened and flourished and compounded and their capacity to do the work when they have a well trained AI, you know, capability, or well trained AI bot or, you know, great AI capabilities. So I think learning all those things is really, really important. And what’s great about it is it’s, it’s super accessible. Right. Every one of us can jump on, open up a generative AI tool, and if you’re not sure where to start, ask it, ask it.
Amy Vaughan:
Where do I start? And say, I want to learn how to be a great prompt engineer with a tell me what I need to do. You know, and that’s the nice thing is it’s like, it’s really in my mind, leveling the playing field for a lot of people from an education standpoint. Right. Because we don’t have to go get a college degree to learn, learn how to use AI yet. I don’t know, are there AI classes yet? Like, specifically?
Nikki Ferrell:
Well, there are AI building. AI, okay, yeah. Building the large language model, those kinds of computer engineering. And I think prompt engineering. There was a, like a little push where we saw a couple of those classes. And then quickly, I think everyone is realizing rightly that you don’t need to be a prompt engineer because AI will do it for you. You just ask, give it a prompt and say, can you improve this prompt? So if you’re thinking, if you’re a young person on here and you’re like, I’m going to be a prompt engineer when I grew up, stop. Yeah, do something.
Nikki Ferrell:
Pick something else. That’s one of the, that’s not going to be a viable career path, I think. Yeah, Yeah. I think there is so much that, you know, using it and using it responsibly and ethically is, it’s also, is hard, you know, to think about these things. There’s research that came out at the end of last year from Microsoft that folks were reporting cognitive declines who, people who use AI a lot reported that they do not feel like they are as strong at problem solving. The same goes for writing, you know, for, in my opinion, we talk about this, that writing is part of a process, a learning process. You, you, as you write, you analyze and you figure things out and you, you process. And if you’re taking that away and giving it to an AI, then you are taking your, you know, getting rid of some of your learning your, your, you know, you’re not practicing that skill anymore.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
So I think that it’s so important to have a holistic view of what you’re doing and, you know, how you’re using AI and doing it in a way that only improves you as a person or as a professional and does not take away those important things that you the skills that you practice now make a spreadsheet for me to give me the formula for this Google Doc so that I can make all of these numbers add up. Please tell me that I don’t care about learning that.
Amy Vaughan:
Let it be the computer. Yeah. Let it be the machine.
Nikki Ferrell:
I’m happy with that. Right. So I think that, you know, there’s a lot of things to consider when you’re thinking about how to use AI.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
Yeah.
Amy Vaughan:
Random sidebar. One of my favorite uses of generative AI because to me it’s also just like us souped up search engine is to use it for tech support. I don’t have it tech support and I’m setting up backend systems and integrations and like my ADD kicks in because there’s all these blogs because Everybody has their FAQs and they’ve got articles because they want you to read all of that before you call somebody. And so me just talking to my chat GPT or Claude about what I’m doing and I’m like, I don’t see this. What are you talking about it like literally I fly through that stuff. So if you guys haven’t used it for IT support yet, give it a try.
Nikki Ferrell:
I used it like a month ago to create my bills spreadsheet and auto populated every month with. I made a PI or I made an app script. I’m not a coder, I don’t know anything about that. But it wrote an app script to. So every time I run that script it creates a new spreadsheet for the month that has not just like the pay dates that are set because I get paid monthly and my husband gets paid every other Wednesday. So it’s tough. I was, every month I was trying, I was having to like put all that in manually.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
And it is, it’s I, it said, you just run this app script. And I said, okay, give me step by step instructions on how to run an app script and what is an app script. And it led me, you know, and then I would, it would, I would run it and it wouldn’t work. And I would say this is the error message. And it says that’s probably because of this.
Amy Vaughan:
Yep.
Nikki Ferrell:
We used it in a class to write to build a website last semester, you know, from scratch. Folks who have no HTML or coding experience whatsoever. So this is where you know these, you small businesses and organizations that don’t have a tech department and a web development team and I don’t want to say marketing team, but you can do a little bit, right? I guess yeah, but you know, it opens up so many doors for folks to be able to be more productive and doing that stuff.
Amy Vaughan:
Absolutely. And like I said earlier, it goes back to you have to understand and know the craft. That’s why it’s like, you know, I won’t replace marketing, it’ll just reveal all the bad marketers. You know, Another great example, I was mentioning photographers earlier. There’s another food photographer here in town. He’s been doing food photography for 30 years and you know, he’s in almost 60. And he decided as soon as I came around the bend, he’s like, I’m going to embrace this. And his ability to leverage the tools, you can see it in his work.
Amy Vaughan:
Like, you would be hard pressed to find somebody that could create and generate food photography at the level in which Terry does. But it’s because he understands the nuance of food photography because he spent 30 years doing it and he really dug in and learned the tools. And so I think that’s where that perfect marriage of like the tool, which is the technology and the craft, you know, really works well. And also why you can’t just replace your whole marketing team with AI. Like, unless you got a really super well rounded, really brilliant, you know, AI user and marketer behind the keyboard, like, you’re kind of screwed. You’re just gonna get very vanilla, generic and potentially damaging marketing that gets put out there, that has bias, that has just assumptions built in and things like that.
Nikki Ferrell:
And that looks exactly the same as every other agency that’s, that’s using AI to create their marketing. That, I mean, you will, you know, you’ll stand out by being the same as every everybody else.
Amy Vaughan:
Exactly, yeah, 100%. All right, so we know that there’s a lot of leaders out there who kind of feel caught between embracing AI for competitive advantage and protecting their team’s jobs. We’ve kind of touched on this and their well being. How have you worked to navigate some of that tension, if you’ve experienced any of that at the university?
Nikki Ferrell:
So I think one thing that we’ve always emphasized, you know, that’s why we started with the principles of AI use. One of our principles is humans will always be critical for the work that we do and that AI should not replace anyone, but augment their work. So we make that clear from the beginning that this is not an adopting AI is not an attempt to slash jobs. It’s to allow all of us to grow and do more things in our roles. So, I mean, you can kind of look at it two different ways you can use AI to get rid of all your people and do the same or, or worse job at what you’re, what you’ve been doing with all those people, or you can use AI to keep all those people and do and increase your performance. Right. And so that’s definitely the way that we’re, that we’re embracing it. And I think again, they’re the folks that are skeptical of AI use.
Nikki Ferrell:
You know, that’s their right. It’s fine. There’s folks in my field that in around writing pedagogy who’s who reject AI and they have really good reasons for that and I respect that and I would never pressure anybody to use it. They don’t want to. But I do still expose everyone to the ways that we’re used, that I’m using it, the ways that the folks who are using it are using it. And occasionally you get some folks who are surprised and get, you know, and under. And it takes those specific use cases and examples for them to actually start to see what it means, what it means for, what it would mean for them in their day to day.
Amy Vaughan:
Right.
Nikki Ferrell:
So.
Amy Vaughan:
All right, we got a question from our live audience. So awesome. Thank you guys for asking. Nikki, how do you introduce AI In a university environment, it seems higher education and nonprofits are the slowest to adopt tools that could help them streamline work.
Nikki Ferrell:
We are the slowest. We win the turtle ribbon every time. So for us it was, you know, we have support from the top for sure. President Crawford at Miami University is super excited about technology and the advancement of technology and what it means for higher education, what it means for our learners and our students and the student experience as they’re coming through Miami. So that helps a lot. So, you know, he knows that there’s red tape that is built into the Rs2 higher education that he can’t even, he can’t change. But his support makes a big difference on getting through that red tape for us. You know, it’s also, it doesn’t have to be all or nothing, right? It doesn’t have to be a big adoption for us.
Nikki Ferrell:
It just started with having some principles and UCM, my division’s university communications and marketing, it’s 2025, so it’s been almost two years since we started the committee and we have adopted one paid tool and that’s ChatGPT team. It doesn’t mean that, you know, we do have some other ones that some of some special data specialists and folks are using that are built into tools that we use that. Yeah, you know, but as far as like big like just AI centered, AI forward tools.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
That’s the only one that we’ve went through the software, went through it to get access to. And the reason for that is first of all it does a lot for all of us. So it was the, it made the most sense. We were very careful in choosing a tool that has a closed system. So we have the teams version so that no, nothing that we go that we put into it goes out and is shared and supposedly is not used to train any other models.
Amy Vaughan:
If you trust the tech companies, believe the fine print.
Nikki Ferrell:
Yeah. Yes. And everyone on our team has to take, has to learn our principles and policies. Take a quiz a little. Nice. It’s very short before they get access to the ChatGPT team account. So it’s a way of not only encouraging folks to use a safe system that is fenced off that we can all collaborate in, but also forces them to at least acknowledge the policies and principles and think about that before they start using ever start using AI. Now are folks using free other free tools.
Nikki Ferrell:
And you know we have Gemini where Gemini, we’re a Google school so we have everyone on the campus has access to Gemini built into their accounts for free and so folks are using those as well. But it doesn’t have to be a huge lift where we suddenly flip a switch and we’re an AI forward institution. Right. For us it’s okay that we’re trying to be patient and a lot of times when you do go after those big changes, they end up just being shiny objects that companies buy and use. So that’s something to keep in mind as well.
Amy Vaughan:
Great advice, great answer. Thanks for the question, Lou. Yeah, it’s like the total opposite of some agencies that I know of that were like we’re going to build our own model, like we’re going to have our own LLM and we’re going to sell it and we’re going to white label it. I’m like, can you all just chill for like a moment and actually like say is this something that people are going to want to buy when you’ve got these super powered, you know, large language models that are read by like Google and Microsoft, you can’t compete. You know I understand like the desire for privacy but even those guys had that all figured out as, as well. But I love what you said about like the quiz taking and like the education in order to even get to the paid opportunity or service. So I’m kind of curious if you could share A little bit more about like what a responsible AI adoption might look like in the day to day and what kinds of guardrails, you know, actually matter when you’re trying to implement something like this.
Nikki Ferrell:
So, so the training is they go through our policies. So we have, I mean we’re a university so we have an, a learning management system called Canvas. So we kind of already have that at our disposal which is really definitely helps a lot with making doing any kinds of training. So we made a, built a course that is really just a Google Slides deck in a Canvas course that includes the principles, a little bit about each principle and then some guidelines that are specific to our marketing division. To be clear, these principles and policies are for the marketing division. They are not university wide. I don’t have that kind of power yet.
Amy Vaughan:
Whole other can of worms too.
Nikki Ferrell:
Right. But they go through and for each principle it’s not just reading the principles, it’s or policies, it’s policy and then example. Policy and then example. So the policy for we don’t use AI for sensitive or controversial content. And the example there is the Vanderbilt one that I talked about at the beginning of the power Power hour. So they go through that. There’s a Google stock spreadsheet that I have where I check them off if they get through the training and then I send them the invitation to join the team environment. And then we have Slack channels where we talk about what we did today with AI, how we’re using it and what we’re developing now is we’ve, we’ve gotten through the policies, the principles and guidelines is the education part.
Nikki Ferrell:
So we’re developing, I have a, we have a Google form where folks can, I’m asking and bother bugging people constantly. Did you use AI today? How did you use AI today? Go fill out that form and then the form populates a spreadsheet that folks can search and say I don’t know how to use AI in my job, but I do emails, I’m writing an email and then they can search email and see how other folks have used AI to help with that. What barriers, what tools, specific tools they used. Did they, you know, would they, was it a success or a failure? Like what did they or what did they learn about how AI works from that experience? So we’re working now on building that use case library, a prompt library, you know, list of resources and stuff for folks to use.
Amy Vaughan:
That’s brilliant. I love that idea of a use case library. I definitely have created like a prompt library where we’ve like Trained, you know, bought on, like our tone, our voice, our messaging, our icp, all those things. And that really helps. But then I think even then, like, for the sake of consistency across your brand, which you want, obviously it’s like having a series of like, prompts is really, really helpful so that there’s consistency across your teams. And I agree with you too. Like, ChatGPT teams is great for that too. Right.
Amy Vaughan:
Because you can create folders and things like that. So if you’re, if you haven’t checked into it. No, not getting paid by ChatGPT, but definitely, I think it’s a good tool and well worth looking into when you’re kind of in that collaborative way, you know, generative AI use situation.
Nikki Ferrell:
And it’s not a, it’s not a huge investment. I mean, it’s $20 a month if you are using the pro version individually and it’s 25 for teams. So yeah, for purpose. And so if you’ve got four people on your team, that’s not terrible.
Amy Vaughan:
100 bucks a month. Can’t, can’t beat that. If you’re using it right and using it well. Absolutely. Again, the optimizations you’ll create and the efficiencies you’ll create creator huge. So I love that idea of. I totally wrote that down in the use case library. I might be stealing that.
Amy Vaughan:
I think that would be a cool thing for our together digital community to do together as well. Because we have a lot of business owners, but then we have people that are within marketing agencies that are. We’re all just trying to figure it out. And it is so cool when you can kind of just scroll through and.
Nikki Ferrell:
Really kind of dive in and see that can be a huge obstacle for folks. Is like, I, I’m fine with using AI. I just don’t know what, what to use it for. You can also put your job description in there and ask AI how, what it can do for you.
Amy Vaughan:
Oh, that’s a great idea.
Nikki Ferrell:
The Marketing AI Institute has a jobs GPT where that’s basically what it is. I listen to the Marketing AI Institute’s podcast.
Amy Vaughan:
Love it. Are you going to be at Macon this year?
Nikki Ferrell:
I am.
Amy Vaughan:
Yay. I’ll see you there.
Nikki Ferrell:
I will be there.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
Awesome. Wonderful.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. And a huge shout out to Kathy McPhillipson of her peeps who make that happen. Yeah, she’s amazing.
Nikki Ferrell:
So, yeah, it’s a great event. Cleveland is beautiful in October and I just, I lived in Cleveland for a little bit, so it’s a good chance for me to See, folks, and yeah, go to Macon. It’s great.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah, Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. I love, I love Cleveland.
Nikki Ferrell:
It rocks.
Amy Vaughan:
I like being up there. It used to be content marketing world was up there as well for many, many years. And they’ve moved now, but that’s how I got to know Cleveland. Was those events. Awesome. All right, let’s see. See, I think the next two questions you kind of already answered in a lot of ways. So live listening audience, we’re coming close to time.
Amy Vaughan:
So if you’ve got additional questions, don’t be shy about dropping them in. And then I’m going to get to one last question and then our power round of questions. So my last kind of bigger question for you, Nikki, is for leaders who are still hesitant and those who want to lead, who are still hesitant about AI, whether it’s due to ethical concerns or feeling overwhelmed by the technology. What would you want them to know?
Nikki Ferrell:
Oh, gosh, I think it’s, it’s happening whether we resist it or not. I hear that. I know everyone hears that a lot and it sounds, it’s a, it’s kind of mean, you know, to say, but I think it’s true. I think that, you know, I, I don’t like to say, you know, it doesn’t mean that you have to use it and love it and adopt it, but I do think that you really need to take a hard look at what you’re doing and what your organization is doing to determine whether ignoring this tool is going to be good for your future, your strategy. And I think that what’s holding you back? I mean, if it’s that you don’t want robots to take over, I agree, I get it. It can be scary. But I think that’s an even. makes it even more important to have policies and talk about AI.
Nikki Ferrell:
And, you know, your AI policy might be do not use AI. And you may, and there’s lots of sectors that have great reasons for that, but at least start the conversation and listen and hear, you know, hear from your, from your team about what they want to see. How do they want to use it? Are they, are they finding it helpful? You know, be open to seeing, to listening to your team’s feedback and what solutions they’ve come up with because they are the ones that are in their day to day, so they have the best perspective on how it might be helpful for them.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah. And they’re likely already using it, like you said, on the down low, so you might as well come on out and address that elephant in the room. It Also makes me think about, like, for some people who are a little trepidatious about leveraging it at work, I said, try using AI for your personal life. You know, we were visiting my dad in Florida a couple weeks ago, and last minute, he’s in Clearwater. So Disney is two hours away. Decided we were going to go to Disney the next day. And I’m like, wait a second. Who decides to.
Amy Vaughan:
Unless you live in Florida and got a pass. Like, who just shows up at Disney? Like, you have to have a plan. Right?
Nikki Ferrell:
Right.
Amy Vaughan:
And of course, there’s millions of sites and blogs and experts, expert articles that are out there about Disney. And I just literally went in and I said, hey, we’re gonna go to Disney tomorrow. Here’s my kids, ages. Here’s what they like. Here’s what they like shows. We’re gonna be with my dad. We need to minimize the amount of back and forth across the park.
Amy Vaughan:
We’re gonna be there one day. Here’s the two parks. We’re going to give me an agenda and. Oh, my gosh, Nikki, it was amazing. It was a really tight, awesome agenda. And granted, we flexed within it, but at least it gave us some guidance to know what direction we were going. So everybody got a little bit of what they wanted out of the day. And for me, it was like going in with a little bit of a plan and not like a wing and a prayer, you know, going to the.
Amy Vaughan:
One of the most crowded and sometimes meant to be the happiest, but can be easily the most miserable if things go sideways. And so I’ve used it for that. I used it for, like, looking for gift ideas for the holidays when I started to get burnt. I’ve done it for meal planning, for creating workouts for myself. Like, just kind of play with it. Like you said, have that mindset of, you know, experimentation and find safe places to do that. And then you’re going to. All of a sudden you’re going to try to like AI, Everything.
Nikki Ferrell:
Yes. And it’s. I mean, next time you think of Google, you’re. You start to Google something. Try, try instead. That might be a good, Like, a good thing to try. I’ve used it for all those things. Plus my garden.
Nikki Ferrell:
I sent a picture of a plot that I can’t get things to grow in. And I said, why isn’t anything growing here? And it said, I noticed that the sun is over here and that it’s probably shade all day. And there’s a big tree and the soil Is this kind. Because I know that you. Where you live. Well, okay, so it’s getting. It does get kind of creepy because it does know way too much about me. I also had it.
Nikki Ferrell:
I was asked to share a favorite poem earlier this week for another event. And I don’t. I haven’t read any poetry since college. And so I said, what poems do you think I would like? And it gave me 10 poets. I liked most of them. It is. And it was interesting. It was.
Nikki Ferrell:
It’s, you know, gave me poets that write concisely and, you know, that get the point across and, you know, see look simple but aren’t simple. And it was like, how would I. I wouldn’t even know to look for poems like that. But that’s. Yes, you’re right. You’re exactly right. That’s exactly what I would like. So it was interesting.
Amy Vaughan:
You know us so well. That’s so great.
Nikki Ferrell:
I love it.
Amy Vaughan:
I love it. All right, let’s get to our power round questions. We got lots of stuff going on in the chat, but it’s mostly just comments and support and agreement. So. All right, what is your go to prompt when you’re stuck and need AI to help you think differently?
Nikki Ferrell:
Help me do this. I mean, literally, it’s AI. I’m trying to. I have this problem that I can’t solve or I have a seed of an idea and I’m not sure where I’m going to go with it yet. What would you. What, What? Give me three things that I could do with this. And it’s. I mean, then I have.
Nikki Ferrell:
I do. The other thing that I love to do is talk to it in the car. So if you have the pro, you can talk to it and I can pick what voice I use. And I brainstorm, especially like on the way home from work when my brain is still really going and I have a lot of thoughts and stuff that I want to, like, get down, but I’m literally driving so I can’t write them down.
Amy Vaughan:
Oh, I’m going to try that.
Nikki Ferrell:
Oh, my gosh. It’s a great. It’s great to just bounce ideas off of and like. Okay, expand on that. Okay, now make me a to do list. Make me a Google sheet spreadsheet that I can import into Asana, my project management tool, and make it a project that, you know. And then when I get home, I can do two clicks and I’ve got a new boom.
Amy Vaughan:
There it is. Yeah, it’s great. I love it. And then I love it too, when it starts to like, anticipate, you know, like, you start to put out those ideas and it’s like, would you like me to make this in a PDF format or a spreadsheet for you that sells you?
Nikki Ferrell:
Do you want an action plan?
Amy Vaughan:
I was like, oh, my gosh, yes, please.
Nikki Ferrell:
It upsells you so that you can ever use more data, so that you can be like, Then it can be like, you’ve run out of questions this month. Would you like to pay more?
Amy Vaughan:
I totally have the pro. I can’t not have the pro. I can’t not. It’s just, it’s not going to happen. I use it every day. Every day. All right, what, what, what’s the most unexpected way AI has improved your daily workflow?
Nikki Ferrell:
Just like that, getting over humps, right? The Wall of Awful. I. You said, you mentioned add. I also have ADHD and I. And there’s this great YouTube video about the Wall of Awful. It’s a task that you just can’t even start. It seems exhausting. You don’t even, you know, and especially working more with strategy and less with tactics.
Nikki Ferrell:
In my role in Miami, it’s helped me to look at something, you know, where somebody says, okay, create a ambassador marketing stakeholder marketing strategy for this thing. And I’m like, great, that sounds like a big job. And I don’t even know how to start with that. So going to AI and saying, okay, please write out this strategy. Write out a strategy for me. And then we fine tune it, you know, go back and forth and edit and stuff. And then at the end, I always say, what’s the first step? What is the first task that I need to do for the. To make this happen? Make it small and it says, pick up your pen, you know, or, you know, go write one email.
Nikki Ferrell:
Like, those are. That’s the great, like helps. It’s very good for my neurodivergence, for sure.
Amy Vaughan:
I love it. That’s a great use case. Thank you for sharing that. I really appreciate it and I know our listeners do, too. All right, last one. One AI myth that you wish you could bust for everyone right now.
Nikki Ferrell:
It’s lazy that it. That using it is lazy that it’s, that people who use it are using it to do. Do everything. That is all or nothing. I, I would happily let anyone go through my chats to see how I’m using, you know, how I use the LLMs every day. It’s, it is, it’s back and forth. It’s brainstorming, it’s quizzing me on the Brand style and AP style. You know, it’s, you know, I’m telling it, that idea is, you know, those.
Nikki Ferrell:
That idea is stupid. You need to try again.
Amy Vaughan:
Right.
Nikki Ferrell:
You know, it’s. It’s very collaborative if you’re using it in a good and effective way. So that’s one thing that I think that we should all talk about and be open about using AI so that there’s no shame, so that folks aren’t thinking that, you know, we don’t need to be ashamed of using it because we’re not using it to replace us. That would be dumb. Then I wouldn’t be. I have a job anymore, so.
Amy Vaughan:
Right. Like you said, it’s a supplement, too. You know, it’s an optimizer. It’s an enhancer. It’s a tool. It is a tool. It is still a robot. You still need those.
Nikki Ferrell:
One thing. Loop. One thing. I want to. I want to. I know we’re almost out of time. There’s one thing that I, we talked about with our. In my.
Nikki Ferrell:
One of my classes about technology adoption and the literacy crisis that we’re going through right now with AI, Right. That, you know, we’re yelling, shouting from the rooftops that students aren’t writing papers anymore.
Amy Vaughan:
Yep.
Nikki Ferrell:
This happened with the invention of the pencil people. Scholars believe that if you had an eraser, that you wouldn’t be as smart. You wouldn’t. If you can just erase things, that’s a shortcut.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
You know.
Amy Vaughan:
Oh, my gosh. I love that analogy.
Nikki Ferrell:
It is. It’s absolutely true. There were, you know, there were scholars who talked about that.
Amy Vaughan:
Yeah.
Nikki Ferrell:
And, you know, it’s happened. We know it’s happened with the typewriter, with the computer, with a pencil. It happened when writing was invented. There were people who were pushing back on that because they thought that it would make. That if people don’t have to memorize things, they can just go look it up, then they’re not going to be as smart anymore and our. The public will be dumber if they all learn how to write.
Amy Vaughan:
And now that’s so wild, isn’t it?
Nikki Ferrell:
You’re like, it’s crazy that we think about that today.
Amy Vaughan:
Megan makes it. Yes, exactly 100%. Oh, Nikki, thank you so much. This was such a great conversation. Lots of thoughtful comments, and thank you to our live listeners as well. Some really practical conversations about, you know, something that so many of us are really grappling with, you know, trying to find a way to be responsible and really work with the adoption of AI in a way that doesn’t have to be overwhelming, just more intentional, ethical and human centered. So thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate it.
Nikki Ferrell:
Thank you so much for having me. It’s been great.
Amy Vaughan:
And listeners, keep an eye on both our YouTube channel and our podcast. Make sure you subscribe to both for this episode when it finally goes live. It’s usually in in about a week. And if you’re inspired by conversations like this, I would really encourage you to check out the Together digital community where we just love to talk the truth and share really what everybody else is thinking. We like to address the elephants in the room. Our Amazing is such a brilliant community of really super savvy, smart women who are, you know, there to listen, who are there to learn. They own their own career and personal development by being members. It’s just a great place to find ongoing support for you that understand the unique challenges that we’re all facing.
Amy Vaughan:
So all of you, thank you for joining us today and we will see you all in another week or so. Until then, everyone keep asking, keep giving and keep growing. Bye now.
