Amy Vaughn:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to our weekly power lounge. This is your place to hear authentic conversation from those who have power to share. My name is Amy Vaughn, and I am the owner and chief empowerment officer of Together Digital, a diverse and collaborative community of women who work in digital and choose to share their knowledge, power, and connections. You can join the movement at togetherindigital.com. And today, I’m thrilled to introduce all of you and to have joined us for this next hour, an hour of insight, inspiration, and empowerment. We are going to dive into a topic that’s pretty much on every marketer’s mind right now, and that is how to leverage AI in what we do. In a world where AI is rapidly evolving, it’s not about replacement, ladies and gents. It is about enhancement.
Amy Vaughn:
We’re here today to explore how you can harness the power of AI to supercharge your marketing strategies and drive better results. Our special guest today, Pam Didner, is a b to b consultant, speaker, and author with a wealth of experience in strategic planning, account based marketing, and sales enablement. Pam has written not 1, note 2, note 3, but 5 business books. She just, you know, does all the things and then went in her spare time, writes all of the books, including
Pam Didner:
Oh, yeah.
Amy Vaughn:
Very recently, the modern AI marketer in the GPT era. So we are in for a treat. It is definitely something worth checking out and grabbing. It is a great tool and resource. It’s not gonna take you forever to read. It is gonna be something easy and quick to digest with some fantastic prompts, something that you can take and start to put into action right away. So over the next hour, we’re going to unpack AI’s role in marketing, dispel some of those myths about job replacement. I know it’s a crazy market out there right now, and we’re having to shift and change and embrace a lot.
Amy Vaughn:
We’re gonna discuss how you can adapt your approach to AI for maximum impact. Alright? Remember, folks, we’ve got our live listening audience here with us today. We love it that you are here with us. You keep us all honest, and you keep us all authentic as we have our conversation here today. So, live listening audience, please feel free to use the chat. Ask us questions. Let us know how you’re feeling. We are all on this ride along together, so let’s listen and learn and grow with one another.
Amy Vaughn:
Pam, welcome to the Power Lounge. We’re excited to have you here with us today.
Pam Didner:
Amy, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. Wonderful. It’s live. Yes. We’re doing this right.
Amy Vaughn:
We’re going right for it. Going right for it. And, you know, for those who don’t know you, maybe as well as I do, you have had an impressive career as a b to b consultant, speaker, and author. And I would love for those who are listening to hear a little bit more about you and your career journey so far.
Pam Didner:
Yeah. Well, I’m not a typical b to b marketing person. I actually have kinda like a twisted fate Mhmm. Career change, if you will. So I actually was a CPA, and I went to the dark side to become a marketer. Yep. So if I work in a big corporation for a long period of time, and way back then, they actually encourage us to move around. And I was very fortunate. I started with finance and accounting, and then moved to operations, and then supply chain management purchasing, And somehow landed a job doing event operations because I’m very good at operations.
Pam Didner:
So that manager hired me to actually do event operations. Somehow that led to trade shows and events, which I did for 4 years. So if any one of you is doing a trade show and event, salud. It’s a hard job. And, Amy, you know it pretty well if you do the event. You know exactly what I’m talking about. And then from there, I made a transition to doing marketing strategy, as part of the COVID marketing team instead of a marketing direction and campaign direction for the regional marketing team. So I left that job.
Pam Didner:
It was great, but I left in 2014, and in the past 10 years, I’ve been on my own.
Amy Vaughn:
I love it. I love asking this first question because it really again, every episode reemphasizes the nonlinear direction that every successful woman’s career takes. I think for those who are early in their career, mid career, in a career crisis, it might feel like looking at your collective experience. All of your skills are transferable, and I love how your company encouraged that because I know not all companies
Pam Didner:
- Was very lucky. Yeah. Mhmm.
Amy Vaughn:
That’s fantastic. And I love I love hearing that background because sometimes you learn things, even people that you know, you’re like, oh, didn’t know CPA, but then broadening those skills and then taking taking taking and embracing all of your abilities and all of your gifts and, you know, running with that usually lands you where you are absolutely meant to be. Alright. Let’s talk about the books. Yeah. You know? The modern marketing, the modern AI marketer guide to gen AI prompts that you have beautifully displayed there behind you for those of you who like to see the books. Yay. Go check it out.
Amy Vaughn:
Kaylee, who’s so amazing, has also dropped that into the chat for our live listeners to take a look at. Those who are viewing after listening afterwards, be sure to check it out in the show notes as well. You said that mastering AI prompting is no longer optional. I think a lot of us listening would have to agree, and those of us who are listening or aren’t there yet will soon be convinced. When did you realize that this shift was happening in the marketing world?
Pam Didner:
I think I started talking about AI back in 2019. So Okay. Just want to put things in perspective. Chat gpt was launched on November 30, 2022. Yeah. And within 5 days, 5 days, it hit 1,000,000 users. 1,000,000. And, when I found out it hit 1,000,000 users, I was like, wow, I need to check this out.
Pam Didner:
Yeah. And, then of course, within less than 2 months, it hit 100,000,000 users. So everybody was going to chat gpt, which is kinda starting this gen AI, you know, revolution, if you will. Mhmm. And then they just stopped asking questions. Why chat gpt is captivating is it gives you one answer. 1. If you do you know, it’s kinda like Google search.
Pam Didner:
Right? You’re not asking Google for quite for answers as well, but you have to sift through, you know, many articles. You have to read it. Do you know how much work that is?
Amy Vaughn:
So much work.
Pam Didner:
You know, it’s like, seriously.
Amy Vaughn:
We’re getting sold to. Right? Too. Because, like, the first page is all sponsored anymore anyways.
Pam Didner:
What are you doing? Right? So everybody was, like, asking questions, and I was like, oh my god. Here’s the answer. They you can ask pretty much any questions. Yeah. You can relay the coding question. You can ask them about IDA, your birthday party. You can ask them anything marketing related. You get answer.
Pam Didner:
The answer is good or bad. You know, you need to be a judge. Yes. You need to make a judgment call. Yes. But one answer is that instant gratification.
Amy Vaughn:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It’s like a marketer’s magic 8 ball.
Pam Didner:
That’s right. Yeah. It is. Because I was saying, I was saying, like, you know what? This will be a f f.
Amy Vaughn:
Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. And, I mean, as early as 2019, that’s that’s really interesting that you kind of caught on that early and was like, okay. This is something we need to be paying attention to. Was there any initial fear for you in that, or are you kind of one of those people that you’re like, no?
Pam Didner:
No. Actually, that’s a great question. To be honest, and a lot of things or a lot of research I started doing, that’s because, I have event organizers. So people or clients that come to me and say, hey. Can you look into this? Mhmm. So I actually have an event organizer come to me and say, can you talk about AI?
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Pam Didner:
And I was like, sure. No problem. And I turned around. I was like, I don’t know what I’m gonna say. I just don’t know. But, you know, then I started doing research. And way back now, you know, it’s not I don’t I I call it, like, the chat CBT kinda launched the consumerization Right. Of, AI.
Pam Didner:
But way before them, that people can actually use the algorithm or use a large language model to actually take advantage of AI is big companies like Google, like Amazon. You know? Like, for example, the great example of AI is when you buy something on Amazon, they have the recommendation, you like this, therefore, you will like these 2. You know, check it out. Right? So the AI usage model I was using is more kinda like the enterprise applications Yep. And, less on kinda like how the marketer can apply to it.
Amy Vaughn:
True. Okay.
Pam Didner:
Yeah. And then, of course, after chatting gpt Generative. The whole world changed.
Amy Vaughn:
Generative. Yeah. I think generative really lit the spark. I think a lot of us kind of didn’t really understand what I was and how much it was actually, like, in the background of our lives as marketers Exactly. And being leveraged as a tool. I mean, even in, like, creative applications and, you know, like, image editing and things like that. Yeah. We don’t even realize how much it was in the background.
Amy Vaughn:
But then we think AI, and it’s, like, all generative. It’s all MLM, and it’s, like, large language models, and it’s not so much in the space of, you know, other technologies, I think, oftentimes. We forget. We’ve we’ve we’ve so we’ve become so consumed. We cut that.
Pam Didner:
We take it for granted. For a lot
Amy Vaughn:
of times,
Pam Didner:
The AI is really behind the scenes. Yeah. It’s something that you cannot touch, you cannot smell. Mhmm. And it is working there for a long period of time. Like, for example, the Google search. I mean, Google continuously optimizes their Google search mechanism.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. Machine learning.
Pam Didner:
Before, you have to type the whole sentence. Now you can you just type 2 words and then you
Amy Vaughn:
The predictive text. Exactly.
Pam Didner:
And that’s AI in the word.
Amy Vaughn:
It is. It is. And I think it does a lot too for the sake of, like, personalization and just, like, creating efficiencies and things like that. I mean, we get into and break down a whole mass of things as to, like, how it’s helpful, but how it’s harmful. But at the end of the day, it’s I think, you know, again, I’m, like, a digital gal sort of through and through. So for me, I think a lot of it was, like, this odd fascination that probably a lot of people felt when, like, in the sixties when we were trying to go to the moon. You know? It’s like, wow. Where will this take us? What will this mean? And it wasn’t really for me even being, like, a background.
Amy Vaughn:
Like, my background’s copywriting. And, I mean, that’s straight what AI generative, you know, generative AI is coming for. It’s, like, it’s those who write. But then I’m also looking at it going, okay. But now people who aren’t by trade writers now have the ability to actually storytell.
Pam Didner:
You know? I do agree with that. I do agree with that. And, so if you are a copywriter, I definitely feel there is a threat Mhmm. And the entrance of, like, AI, can write faster and quicker. Mhmm. That doesn’t mean, you know, AI can write better. Agreed. And, you need to be able to understand your brand.
Pam Didner:
You need to understand your product. You also need to understand your audience. Yes. And, you know what tone and manner will make them click. Mhmm. And, you have that knowledge. AI doesn’t. The only way I can have that knowledge is through prompts, through your direction of guiding them.
Pam Didner:
So it’s still coming from your expertise. Exactly. I cannot generate anything magically. Yeah. It can, but you still have to give them that direction, the guidance.
Amy Vaughn:
It’s gonna be very vanilla otherwise, which leads beautifully into the next question that I have for you is, you know, in your book, you’ve included over 75 prompts and 12 sales and marketing categories. Yeah. There it is again. Great product placement. I love it. Can you share all those 75? Because we don’t wanna give them all away. We’re not giving them all away for free here today, folks. Can you share one with one prompt that you think would make that every marketer should have in their toolkit?
Pam Didner:
I think if you are using, I would say, the AI prompts right now, a lot of you are using for like, you do a social media post. Mhmm. And you’re gonna write something, and then you’re going to ask, like, a chat gpt or AI prompt to rewrite it, you know, just to make sure that it’s grammatically correct or Yeah. There’s another way to say it better. So I think the one that everybody tends to use right now is, as I can tell, and you can tell me otherwise Mhmm. Social media posting. Uh-huh. Right? So it’s just, like, rewrite it and then make it better.
Pam Didner:
And, honestly, you don’t like on LinkedIn, you don’t even have to get out to chat gptC. You don’t. Yeah. They
Amy Vaughn:
they built it in.
Pam Didner:
And then say rewrite with AI. Uh-huh. And I actually tried that. Oh, I don’t think it was that good. But, anyway it was great. Me. Okay. Thank you.
Pam Didner:
So you are a copywriter and you validated my point of view. Yeah. And, so, I think the writing part of it Mhmm. Is probably where the majority of people or the marketers are using that for. Mhmm. Like writing a blog or whatnot. And I do actually have a point of view. There’s a lot of things you can do.
Pam Didner:
Like I said, I created this in only 50 pages. Not you know, you can I can tell you, just go to chapter 3? Yeah. That’s great.
Amy Vaughn:
I love it.
Pam Didner:
All the promises. And it’s divided into 12 sales and marketing categories. Mhmm. And I write basically, like, for example, I need a social media post for my organization. Mhmm. You talk about your company name and that that’s public. Write a post for, you know, a social media platform, which one? Mhmm. On this topic, for that topic, you should give a little bit more detail
Amy Vaughn:
Yes.
Pam Didner:
In a specific number of characters. Let’s assume that you only have to use, you know, like, 228 characters or less, you can provide that specific instruction. Write it in some sort of tone, conversational, blog writing, formal business writing, write in a certain tone. Right? So you can specify that. Include a call to action in the end, and then you specify call to action. Yep. So the way I write every single prompt is, it’s kinda like a paraphrase or paragraph. I love it. That you can replace and add additional information to it.
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm. Yeah. And the more specific you can get, the better. And then what I’ve done is I’ve begun to just kind of keep those, like, saved and paste it and just to kind of, like, plop them back in because I’m gonna use the same sort of prompt sort of over and over and over again. And I’ve definitely found that, like, you know, you can train your AI, and we’ll get into this at some point too. I’ve got a guest coming soon talking about AI agents, which I’m not sure if you’re super familiar with AI agents yet or not.
Pam Didner:
Okay? Familiar with it. You can actually create an AI agent and, yes, to do that. The bottom line is, Amy, can I take over what you just said, elaborate a little bit more? Yeah. Absolutely. Like, for example, Amy has this beautiful life, you know, podcasting. And then every single time she does this podcast, she has to come up with the title. She has to come with the meta description. Right? And these are, like, repetitive tasks for every single episode.
Pam Didner:
So there is a prompt that has been written for, you know, to come up with a better title, to come up with metadata and a description. So that description or that prompt doesn’t change. You can actually create a customized agent or customize a personal assistant that just focuses on these two tasks. So when you just have to change maybe, you know, the title and or give a little bit information about this specific episode, and then that agent will create the same topic for you. Because it’s repetitive tasks and you build an AI agent for it, so you kinda automate, if you think about it, that specific process.
Amy Vaughn:
Yep.
Pam Didner:
I was like, oh my god.
Amy Vaughn:
This is so good. It is so good. Well, because it’s like that next phase. Right? That’s the next step. So many of us are kind of it’s it’s it’s maybe a little hard to get your head around, but I love the way you just explained it so much, Pam. And it’s like, it’s also I would like to explain it as, like, a tool kit. Right? Like, you wouldn’t
Pam Didner:
a tool kit.
Amy Vaughn:
You wouldn’t grab a hammer out of a toolbox to tighten a screw. Right? That thing’s thumbs up. You would want to grab, you know, a screwdriver to do that, and you’re not going to, you know, grab a tool to do that to screw in the screw every time, the screwdriver. You’re going to want to just have the tool already built. You know? So it’s like that’s what an agent is. It’s like literally having a screwdriver already set and already made
Pam Didner:
to set. Yeah. Because you are using that same screw, you know, every single time. So that’s built, that’s the ultimate process to make it easier. So Amy doesn’t have to think all the time. Like, oh my god. I’m talking to Pam about AI, so why should the title be?
Amy Vaughn:
Right. Yeah. And the same moms over and over again. Yeah. And it’s so great too because once you’ve, like and, I mean, you know, you’ve got processes out there too that will help you kind of build and create your and I’ve seen this too. I was at, Black Tech Week here in Cincinnati a couple months ago, and there was a guy there talking about, like, building out and programming agents for doing even, like, financial reporting and finance work, talking to a CPA here. So, like, there’s a lot of stuff, not just marketing tasks even now, that can actually be automated and done, to a certain degree. Obviously, you have to keep what they call, like, the human in the loop to check for, like, error and processing and management because as these agents like, there’s again, not to break anybody’s brain here.
Amy Vaughn:
We’re getting a little off topic, but I start to nerd out. These agents can actually, like, work across, like, collaborate and work with each other and actually oversight with one another to some degree, apparently, within some technologies and platforms I’m hearing about and seeing, which, again, not to break anybody’s brain. But here’s the thing. It’s, like, it’s important for us to hear or see and learn about these things because at the end of the day, this is just how our work is evolving. Right? And if you think about it, it used to be that, you know, generations before, we built cars and things by hand, and then there came a time when we got out of the assembly line and machines started being the things.
Pam Didner:
Taking over. Yep. It’s kind of that same revolution. You know
Amy Vaughn:
What am I saying? It is. It absolutely is. So all of the work that you’re doing, I love that you’re creating content for folks that feels, you know, digestible and specific and actionable. And so when you were talking about creating these books and and sharing them and I got my hands on them, I was like, we have to have her on the podcast because I know this is such a big topic for a lot of our our women out there that are members and then those who are, you know, listening to the podcast, and it’s it can feel overwhelming, and it can feel daunting because maybe you aren’t as big of a nerd about this as maybe you and me. And that’s totally fine, and you don’t have to be. But, like, how can we empower you with a little bit more education and information so that you can, kinda get your hands on the stuff so that you can move forward as well. Let’s talk a little bit more about prompting and how your book emphasizes the importance of building because we’re kind of still on that topic of prompting and building sequences of AI prompts. Talk us a little bit through because agents kind of fall into that space too.
Amy Vaughn:
Right? Could you talk us too through an example of how the sequential approach works in practice? Maybe building even off the social media one if you want or give me another example, whichever.
Pam Didner:
So, in this book, I talked about their different, prompting techniques. It’s actually on page 10. So there’s a chain of thought prompting Mhmm. Which is you have a specific thought. And so you build a question, kinda ask like, hey. What is commercial banking? And then the next question is, like, what does, know, then they will give you a lot of information, and then one of them is the line of credit, and then you move on and say, what is the line of credit? And then maybe the next one is, how can I apply? You know, it’s a chain of thought. Right? And then the other one is called a threat of thought. It’s basically it’s expansion on the chain of thought prompting by asking the model to generate multiple potential steps, like line of credit.
Pam Didner:
So how do I apply? Like, can you give me the steps? What do I need to do? Right? And, so there are many different types of prompting techniques. It’s even though this is more kinda like I provided the technique options, but the way but set this aside, just put that away, is the thing about the chat gpt or any kind of gen AI at this time is you can carry conversations. Mhmm. That’s how you need to think about it. Don’t think about any kind of, you know, the technique option I mentioned. It’s no use. That’s academia. So you think about it when they build the sequence.
Pam Didner:
You don’t really have to, like, oh my god. Let me think about it first, what I need to talk to AI. No. It’s not. It’s more or less like you have this specific question. The AI is not answering the way you want it. Yeah. Okay.
Pam Didner:
Now you have to think about it. How can I write it a little bit differently? Or and or they are answering this and it’s like, it’s not really that. I don’t know. I need to write it. What is this? Or can you explain a little bit more? You know, those are, like, very conversational types of text Yeah. Or how we communicate with real humans. You can write those and then carry that conversation forward. Like, that’s for example, just like you said, the social media post.
Pam Didner:
Mhmm. Great example. So you write a social media post, but and, but you were like, I don’t know. Then there are certain things you need to say you can say rewrite, you know, the 2 sentences, or you can say, no. I need to change my call to action to this, make it stronger. Mhmm. So that is the sequencing I’m talking about. You can carry the conversation forward Right.
Pam Didner:
And to help them understand a little bit more and then keep forward.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. I think one I don’t know if this would count as sequencing per se, and you could tell me if it is or not, but, like, I will do it to help generate, because, gosh, as a copywriter, it’s got thrown at me all the time. As a junior copywriter and those of you who are out there listening that are in that space, you’ll empathize. They’re like, write me a 100 headlines because, you know, it won’t be we won’t come up with a good one unless you write a 100. And then I’m like, I’ve written for so long now. I know a good headline when I see one. Okay? Yeah. And I used to have one, like, chief creative officer.
Amy Vaughn:
I used to, like he’d always be like, you won’t get to the good one until it’s, like, a 100. And so I used to, like, take my first headline and put it at the bottom because I knew it was the best and the right headline. And that’s the one I wanted anyways, and that’s how I got those guys to choose the one I wanted. Yeah.
Pam Didner:
But anyway not gonna pick up on that.
Amy Vaughn:
Is not gonna pick up on that.
Pam Didner:
Can. Yeah.
Amy Vaughn:
Now I use AI as my little, junior copywriter bee. I’m like, listen. You write me 10 headlines.
Pam Didner:
I’m not
Amy Vaughn:
I’m not as demanding. I’m like, write me 10 headlines. In my sequences then, I’m like, okay. Given that this is my audience and that this is my objective, which of these headlines do you think will be the most effective? That’s an analysis itself.
Pam Didner:
That’s sequencing because Okay. I have done that as well.
Amy Vaughn:
Uh-huh.
Pam Didner:
So it’s very interesting to see how AI analyzes Yeah. Is all the subject line. Some of them, I was like, oh my god. Okay. You okay. I get that. You know? They were like, well, this is actually more benefit driven Uh-huh. And the other one is more conversion.
Pam Didner:
Yeah. And that one you know, then it’s like yeah. Analyzing. I was like, oh
Amy Vaughn:
my god. It’s so fun to watch it analyze itself. And then what I’ll do is I’ll throw it into a subject line tester, and I’ll get the scoring, and I’ll get the recommendations from the subject line tester, and I’ll take that feedback, throw it into the chat gpt, and I’ll have chat gpt fix it.
Pam Didner:
See? Now you talk about a process of using 2 different tools. Mhmm. I love it. I love it. So you kind of ask the question and you find out and get the best out of AI for the time being. Right. And then you use another tool to test it and validate it, and then come back and make it even better. Yep.
Amy Vaughn:
And I feel like a true genius.
Pam Didner:
Your own guest. Alright. You can do a pretty good job on it.
Amy Vaughn:
You’re funny. Well, then I felt super awesome because then I got, like, a 100, which I honestly, in all my years of writing, not gonna lie, friends. I mean, I’ve gotten, like, a 95 writing my own, but I’ve never tested. I’ve thrown it into a tester and got a 100. I was, like, screenshotting that shit. And I’m like, I’m saving this forever. It was me and Chad GPT, and we worked together
Pam Didner:
on this. You know what? I help AI to be successful. Right. I am so good at it.
Amy Vaughn:
We’re a great team, me and AI. Oh my gosh. So funny. Love it. But, yeah, I think it’s just it’s again, I mean, it’s just I’m a collaborative person. So even whether it’s a person or a bot, I’m all I’m down for it. I’m down for it.
Pam Didner:
You are like equality, inclusion is all good.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. I mean, because again, at the end of the day, you know what? I’ve got like you said earlier, I’ve got the insights the human insights. I have got the empathy, you know, and I’ve got, like, the final say in judgment on those things. You know? It wouldn’t have gotten there without me. Exactly. It wouldn’t have gotten there without me.
Pam Didner:
That’s where humans still provide, humans still provide value. I don’t know how that will evolve, the AI becomes so smart, and because they are learning fast. They are learning every day. Yeah. And,
Amy Vaughn:
Well, that was my next question. How you see the role of human expertise evolving as AI, prompting becomes more sophisticated. Like, what does our role begin to look like?
Pam Didner:
You know, that’s actually a 64, you know, $1,000 question. I don’t know I don’t want to be a pundit. Every time I predict something, it’s always wrong. I’m the first one to tell you. You’re funny. Like, okay. Like, if you want to put money actually on what Pam said, you should. Stop.
Pam Didner:
Because you’re gonna win. You’re obviously gonna win. I I think about that often Mhmm. In terms of, you know, that AI becomes super smart. Mhmm. And, I mean, like, several weeks ago OpenAI basically said the chat gpt will have reasoning capability. Okay. But who defines reasoning? Right? What is their definition of reasoning? So do they have a cognizant capability, you know, but they said it’s going to obviously, when you prompt something, maybe they will provide a certain kind of logic behind it, so they are gonna give you even better and answer that tailor for you.
Pam Didner:
I don’t know what that means. Yeah. Because I know people that
Amy Vaughn:
I can’t reason. So Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. I love it. I keep
Pam Didner:
I I I I don’t know, like, how far that AI can go. But you also have, bear in mind, AI at this point that working with us, they are software. They are algorithms embedded into devices or embedded into software. Mhmm. Imagine one day they house that with a form, with a robot.
Amy Vaughn:
Sure.
Pam Didner:
So in a way, whatever we are doing right now, we are kind of collectively, as a human race, building the brain of AI. Right. Because eventually, you’re gonna host it. That’s how I see it.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. Yeah. It just makes you wonder.
Pam Didner:
How does that help us in the long run? I don’t know. I cannot tell you, and I have seen enough, I guess, Hollywood horror films, like, in terms of, like, the Terminator is probably the best example, or even Data from the start the next, the Star Trek, The Next Generation Yeah. That they do actually kind of have that human capability. Yeah. And it’s obviously you know, you can also say, will they eventually have a conscience Yeah. And how they will treat us. I don’t have an answer for it, but I can only tell you is at this time, they are still just part of the machine
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Pam Didner:
Or part of the algorithm. Yeah. And what can you do to make the best out of it? Mhmm.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you there. I think it is a more to me, personally, I think it’s more of, like I think there’s gonna be a leveling out a little bit to some degree just based on, like, certain, you know, I think
Pam Didner:
Stable fighting? Are we gonna just do stable fighting with AI?
Amy Vaughn:
No. No. I think it’s gonna be more of, like, the I think it’s gonna level out because of corporate greed and money. You know, they’re gonna go public or they’re already gone or they have not already gone public or not people not walking out now because they’re talking about going public. I mean, I’m gonna be getting my, like, headlines and stories confused, but, like, OpenAI is going to be going public soon and, you know, the guys who helped to start that, don’t want that. They wanted it to be an open resource for people. But the problem also with that is at the other end, it’s like collective intelligence. When you kind of throw in all the collective intelligence, like, gosh, we’re not collectively not always that smart.
Amy Vaughn:
Right? Because it’s like, you know, garbage in, garbage out. We talk about that a lot within this space. Right? We don’t know that not all data is good data. We know there’s a lot of biases within some of this stuff that’s being fed into the machine. So just because it has, you know, because it has input doesn’t mean that the output is good. Right?
Pam Didner:
I 100% agree. Also, depending on the data they pull that information
Amy Vaughn:
from Exactly.
Pam Didner:
That’s why they use the answer. Yes.
Amy Vaughn:
Exactly. So for me right now, I think the most critical human role is, you know, really responsibility, accountability, making sure that, you know, bias and error are still something that we’re very much focused on. I think conversations about, like, regulation and democratization because I really do see AI as something that can help small businesses work
Pam Didner:
Yeah.
Amy Vaughn:
You know, more effectively, more efficiently. But then you see big companies and corporations using it to make excuses to reduce and minimize headcount and things like that because they see it as an opportunity. Part.
Pam Didner:
That’s the one I hear the most for the next generation.
Amy Vaughn:
But it’s to me, it’s gonna be like a pendulum, Pam. I think it’s gonna be like how they go off and they offshore, not to, like, totally go
Pam Didner:
off track. Was like, this is not working, and they got to fire people.
Amy Vaughn:
Yes. That is kind of my prediction. And, again, like, I mean, I don’t know. I would n’t wanna be proven wrong in that. I wouldn’t mind that pendulum swinging back the other way where it’s like Yeah. The offshore jobs, they’re like, wait. That didn’t work. We gotta bring it back stateside, and they do.
Amy Vaughn:
So it might be, yeah. Okay. Well, let’s all go in on AI. We’re gonna be able to reduce headcount and create efficiencies and save our bottom line and pay our c suite more and our shareholders.
Pam Didner:
Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Vaughn:
And then, oh, crap. No. Like, we’re actually creating marketing campaigns that have bias and errors and that aren’t effective. We need to bring humans back in. That’s kinda my hope. But who knows? We’ll see. We’ll I guess we’ll have to wait and see. We’ll, like, come back to this podcast episode in 5 years.
Pam Didner:
It’s it’s it’s it is. It is. We are , it’s kinda like a blessing and a curse at the same time. That we are witnesses. We literally just we are witnessing
Amy Vaughn:
Here we are.
Pam Didner:
How AI is gonna evolve. Mhmm. I think it’s absolutely amazing.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. It is. It’s really an interesting time, and I like to also still just fast forward in my head and think about that, like, in the history books, what is this time gonna look like? And right now, it feels such, like, madness and crisis, but somehow fast forwarding in my head makes it feel a little less chaotic and be like, you know what? There was just a time and a place and an era. And that’s, I think, sometimes why equating it to, like, that assembly line and moving towards more machines and things like that kind of makes it feel like I don’t wanna try to minimize it at all.
Pam Didner:
It’s all
Amy Vaughn:
you know what? It’s perspective.
Pam Didner:
Honestly, Amy, it’s gonna be chaotic no matter what. Sure. It is. That is you know, then I think it’s gonna con because it is more and more evolving. Yeah. And some people will like the direction we are going, but you will always find people who Yeah. Don’t like that direction.
Amy Vaughn:
Don’t wanna move it. Mhmm.
Pam Didner:
And they want to disrupt it. So I personally think that chaos will continue to stay. I don’t think it will ever go away. Yeah. Yeah. Because we are humans. We just love to, like, you know what? I disagree with you. I see you differently.
Pam Didner:
Yeah.
Amy Vaughn:
Uh-huh. Definitely. Yeah. You’ve got people that are gonna jump on board and and move along with it and others who are gonna drag their feet. Yep. Let’s dig in a little bit more to some more areas of marketing that you cover in your book because you definitely talk about SEO, email marketing, as well as social media. Are there any other areas that you think, which areas do you think, have the most untapped potential for AI prompting? Data analytics. Uh-huh.
Amy Vaughn:
Talk about that a little bit.
Pam Didner:
So, you know, like content, you can always, like, okay. Write us a post, and you can even say, okay. Create a demand gen plan. Right? You can give a very specific prompt. And just like you asking the questions, analyze this, right, so is that analytics part of it, I think we can explore a whole lot more Yes. And analyze this and tell me what’s good and bad about it. That’s data analytics. Or you input a certain kind of data in that and say, hey, I actually have this, I have this opening rate for this kind of subject line.
Pam Didner:
I’m just using kinda copywriting, and elaborate a little bit more. And, here is, 50 subject lines for the past 50 email campaigns, and each one of them has an average of the open rate associated with it. Mhmm. And, can you analyze this for me, and then tell me which one which subject line performed better. Yes. And then, of course, the sequencing, why it’s better. Yep. Then the next sequence is, like, I have this email, I want to push it on next month.
Pam Didner:
What, based on all your analysis, what are your 5 proposed subject lines?
Amy Vaughn:
I love it.
Pam Didner:
It’s that analysis part that we need to tap into a whole lot more. Yes. That requires all of us to think a little bit differently. Mhmm. Right? So because you are a copywriter, the first thing you say is, okay, email. Perfect. I’ll write about it. I’ll write a subject line.
Pam Didner:
Or just like you said, you have AI to write a subject line and you test it, and then that’s the next step to move on. But how can we leverage past information Yeah. To train AI and see how that information can be utilized? And then we have more data driven types of insight moving forward. I think that is one part I need to do better. Honestly, I think all of us can do better. It’s that analytics part.
Amy Vaughn:
100%. I and surprisingly, honestly, Pam, this is where I thought I would see more of it even though my background is writing. I’m, as many of you know who listen to the podcast historically in past episodes, you’ve probably heard me share this example. I was working at an agency. It was kind of, like, early days of social listening, and they were talking about, oh, we’ve got all this data. And, again, big data. Right? All this data and marketing. We’re like, look at all this wealth of information that we’re sitting on, but it’s like But
Pam Didner:
What are we gonna do about it?
Amy Vaughn:
What in the hell are we doing with it? And I even wrote an article, back then. I think it was in 2010. I think it’s probably still living on my LinkedIn talking about, like, the tension and the balance of, like, big data and the creative gut, that was in the post. And it was like, I love it because I think data is important. I’m married to an applied mathematician. He’s, like, a PhD. At the time, he was at a university, and he is
Pam Didner:
on the creative side? And he Yeah. On the other hand,
Amy Vaughn:
Although he’s very creative
Pam Didner:
too.
Amy Vaughn:
I will argue. He’s very creative too. And he does mathematical modeling and computer science as well. And so in mathematical modeling, it is taking a lot of big data, and it’s analyzing. It’s leveraging essentially machine learning, AI effectively, and modeling, so computing and creating and shaping and showing, you know, with a ton of data what might happen within a clinical research environment and setting without actually having to do testing on, like, animals or people. And so I’m watching this, you know, company, this agency. They’re like, oh, look at us. We’ve got all this sentiment analysis, and we’re gonna have a model that we’ve created to show what that looks like.
Amy Vaughn:
And I knew they were just pulling it out of their asses, really. And I went home to him, and I was like, listen. What you’re doing, we’ve got all this data. But, really, like, computing is the way, and I didn’t know AI was a thing and, like but I knew what he was doing. I was like, that’s that’s how we analyze. Like, for human brains, we can’t process all that information. We can’t scour all of that data and find the nuance or model, right, and put it and visualize that information in a way that allows the human eye brain to process and go, oh, there’s the pattern. That’s what I need to pay attention to.
Amy Vaughn:
Right? That’s what I need to look for. And so now that’s a lot of what he’s doing. So you said you came to the dark side.
Pam Didner:
Now he’s
Amy Vaughn:
on the dark side. I’m doing that for an AI company as well. And I think it’s just really awesome because I, again, 100% agree with you. I think that’s been a big problem for marketers. We have a half ton of data, and it’s fantastic, but it’s like, what are you doing with it? How are you using it? How are you making customers’ lives easier? How are you solving problems? How are you really finding insights and creating innovations that aren’t just shiny objects, but actually making people’s lives better, easier, you know, at the end the end of the day, versus just adding a feature or a function because you think it’s just gonna, you know, be the next big thing. And it’s like, I don’t know. And that’s I agree. I am very, very I’m so glad that was your answer.
Amy Vaughn:
I, as you can tell, am very excited about data analytics and what AI can really do for that space, as well for sure for sure. And I get that Gen AI is, like, kind of where it’s all at right now, but I really think, to me, the next phase is where people need to be paying attention. So if you’re not using it in your data analytics, start doing it, folks. Alright. Can you share a little bit of an example of a before and after scenario where a well crafted prompt significantly improved a marketing outcome?
Pam Didner:
Yeah. So, this is the way I would look at the before and after. Unfortunately, it’s more or less kinda like comparing humans versus AI to some extent.
Amy Vaughn:
Okay.
Pam Didner:
Like, for example, if I use AI before and after, I always kinda use myself as an example. So before I use AI, what are the things I usually do, and what is the outcome of that? And the other one is after using AI, what is the outcome of it? So let’s just use email marketing as an example.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Pam Didner:
Same thing. Right? So before and after, before you use AI, you create a subject line. Mhmm. And then, then we use the same process, Amy, that you talk about in terms of that. You are asking AI to actually create a fine subject line, do an analysis, you run into the testing, to test the subject line, and you come back and have them do better. So the way I would see it, a lot of time, you need to have a point of view or benchmark in terms of how AI is doing or making an impact on the job that you do, and that’s assuming it’s email marketing. So you should have a subject line that’s 100% created by humans. You also should have a subject line 100% created by AI.
Pam Didner:
Can you do AB testing?
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah.
Pam Didner:
That to me is before and after, and then you have data to support it. Like, you know what? For this round, human 1, AI is 0. But for the next round, it might be, you know, 1 on 1. Who knows? Right? But I think it’s very important.
Amy Vaughn:
Uh-huh.
Pam Didner:
It’s very important that once you are using AI, but you still need to demonstrate your value add. Yes. Like the example I’m sharing with you, the AI, the example I’m sharing with you, you that give you some data. If the AI is performing better, okay, so be it. Great. That’s a data point. But let’s assume that the human subject, subject lines perform better. That’s a data point that you can, you know, speak loud and proud.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Pam Didner:
Right? So that’s what I see in terms of you need to kinda quantify AI’s impact as well. A lot of time, we are using it as we are using it. Mhmm. We just said, okay. It’s a pretty good post. I just posted it. Right? So is it possible you can look at a couple samples and then have a point of view, which one performs better? If AI performs better, we’ll make a note of that. You don’t have to promote it loud and clear.
Pam Didner:
But if you’re doing feathers, you know what? You should let people know. Yeah. So that’s the thing. How I see in terms of before and after. I don’t know if that’s what you have in mind. Mhmm. But, No.
Amy Vaughn:
That’s a great example.
Pam Didner:
Feel like, you know, it’s not a human versus AI race. Maybe it is to some extent, but you need to have a point of view.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. No. I love that. And I love that you’re, like, championing and asking people to remember to truly advocate for themselves and just keep constantly reminding folks that AI is the tool. People are still doing you’re still doing the work.
Pam Didner:
Doing the work.
Amy Vaughn:
It’s like AI is not prompting itself. Like, do you think that happens? That’s scary. No. That’s scary. I don’t know.
Pam Didner:
I
Amy Vaughn:
I don’t know how that happens.
Pam Didner:
I don’t know how that happens. Monday, well, but it’s not now. That’s just
Amy Vaughn:
something that’s not happening. That would be creepy. That would be absolutely creepy. Okay. So your book is definitely aimed at more of maybe the well, your book is aimed at various roles in both sales and marketing. How do you see AI prompting, differently benefiting, say, a content marketer versus maybe a sales or an enablement marketer? Yeah. Or manager. Sorry.
Pam Didner:
No. It’s totally fine. It’s totally fine. It doesn’t matter what I was when I was writing this 75 plus prompts and, for different marketing roles because I, categorizing it 12 and and sales and marketing categories, if you will. So you have to think in terms of when you do your job, I’m gonna give a generic answer, and then I will give a specific answer. Okay. So when you are doing your job, it doesn’t matter what job, email marketing, event marketing, community managers, and, even, you know, salesperson or sales enablement managers. There’s always a prompt you can write, like, to ask AI.
Pam Didner:
For example, on the sales enablement, I need to create, say, a pricing guide for my sales manager for these 3 products and compare them with these 3 competitive products. Can you pull the information from my pricing, You enter information and also pull the pricing information from their website. You provide specific information, and then create a table that compares, product a, b, c, and d, and with the competitor’s product, c, d, and e. Right? So you can actually do a very specific prompt for that. And by the way, when you say create a table, the chat gpt can actually do that. Nice. And, so that’s kind of what I see. It’s looking at your own job, the job that you are doing on a regular basis, and then you are thinking you know, you think about it and say, okay.
Pam Didner:
I am thinking hard about this specific question or the challenges. Can I just write a prompt and ask AI about it?
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm. Yeah.
Pam Didner:
Okay. So that’s one way you should turn around in terms of how you think. Mhmm. Is that helpful? So focus on your job, what you do, and then see if AI can provide value. Yep. Yep. Then, of course, specific job, like, if you are doing a content if you are content marketing if you are a content marketer, sorry, and if you are creating content, of course, using AI and then provide a very specific guidance and create long form content or short form content for you, that’s definitely given. And we’ve been talking about those examples plenty,
Amy Vaughn:
in this podcast. Yeah, yeah, I mean it’s just amazing like the amount of content planning and strategy, and outlining you can crank out in such a short amount of time. You know, it’s just wonderful. Like I said, it’s just when you are a small business and you’ve got limited tools and resources, it’s like, ah, it’s amazing. And I love this idea of, like, the competitor, like, the analysis, the table, the pricing. I know I’ve definitely used it too for, like, writing, or just helping me get started on writing, like, those, emails for sales. So sometimes I feel so, like, forced even when I’m trying to write them myself Yeah. To appear.
Amy Vaughn:
I will go and I will find, like, their bio or any personal information about them, and I’ll put that into the prompt well and ask AI to make sure that it includes
Pam Didner:
It’s included.
Amy Vaughn:
Some sort of personal, like, kind of detailed to them so that it really is, I actually was using it more for, like, press releases and trying to reach out to the press about our upcoming conference. I really wanted it to speak to you again because I’m like, I want to grab their attention. Like, they report on specific aspects about our community. So I really want it to tie to what they are reporting on, and so it’s, like, making sure that it hits those points. This is also great for job seekers too. We do a job seekers peer group every Thursday for Together Digital members, and we were talking a lot about this, how much AI is a great tool for job seekers right now because when you need to craft, you know, cover letters and resumes and every single one has to be very Yeah.
Pam Didner:
It has to be tailored and customized. Yes.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. AI can be such a fantastic way to really help you kind of get a great start on making sure that you’re hitting all the right notes. You know, again, obviously, you’ve got to kind of do the work and go through and make sure everything is right there and accurate. Exactly. Exactly. Help go ahead.
Pam Didner:
That’s what sorry. I apologize for interrupting. You’re fine. Sorry. But you hit the core. You still have to do that job, the last 20 miles. Yeah. Even though they had created the draft for you, you are the one who still needs to read it, and you have to proofread it.
Pam Didner:
You cannot just take it blindly. Mhmm. And I think that’s very important. Yeah.
Amy Vaughn:
You’ve gotta add the finishing touches and the color as well because I just I can’t again, it’s coming from a writer. Right? Especially when it’s coming from me, I just feel like there’s just certain words. And, I mean, I will tell over and over again. I’m like, stop saying this specific word. Like, nobody says this. I will tell you. I’ll yell at it. I’ll be like, nobody says this word.
Amy Vaughn:
You know? And I don’t know why I can’t think of any of them right now, but it’ll be like, there’s certain words that’ll just say over and over again. I’m like, please stop saying that. In the digital world, in the digital landscape, I’m like, nobody says
Pam Didner:
that. Unleash. Unleash. Unleash. Yes. I love that. Like, you ask them to write anything, they always like, unleash the power. Yeah.
Pam Didner:
The power of attack. Not losing those words. I 100% agree with you.
Amy Vaughn:
Banning these words from your vernacular AI. I love it. It’s but, yeah, you really need to kind of make sure you bring in the language that’s truly you so it sounds authentically you. Yep. Alright. Let’s talk about so on that note, I think this is a great segue as well. Like, what are some common mistakes that you see marketers making when it comes to crafting AI prompts or even just leveraging AI in general? If you’re just adding to that.
Pam Didner:
Too generic. It’s like you cannot say create a marketing plan for me. Yeah. I’m not like you know, it’s not it’s that’s not gonna happen. No. So you you you you you have to put into your thoughts in terms of your prompts. Like Mhmm. Create a marketing plan for this type of company, for this type of product.
Pam Didner:
Our challenges for our marketing plan so far are blah blah blah blah blah. Mhmm. And we’ve been creating a marketing plan. You can even upload your marketing plan, and our target audience is this. Mhmm. But so far, we have not been able to meet our KPI, which is the following. So you provide all that information. So you have to do prep.
Pam Didner:
Yeah. In a way, you have to know your products pretty well. You have to know Yep. Stuff. Mhmm. Right? So you have to have how you convey that knowledge of yours Mhmm. Into, like, part of the information that you want. Yeah.
Pam Didner:
Don’t make it generic. No. And also put into the right context. Mhmm. To me, those 2 are very, very important. That means sometimes you just have to write a bunch Mhmm. And then check it out. And again, do the sequencing like Amy indicated.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Pam Didner:
I think that the common mistake is really, first of all, too generic. And second thing is also be patient.
Amy Vaughn:
Like, I
Pam Didner:
you know how many times I write a problem, oh my god. This is not what I want, and I have to walk away. I was like, AI, you are not performing today. I’m really disappointed in you. You know what I’m saying? And then you have to freaking walk away.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Pam Didner:
And so you have to be patient.
Amy Vaughn:
Definitely. Definitely. Well and I I I I as you’re speaking of him, it really just occurred to me too. For those of you that are nonmarketers, I think you have to be careful. Like, do not think AI will replace your marketers. And I think a really good analogy is there is a gentleman I’m not gonna remember his last name right now. Gosh. And I feel bad because I wanna give him some credit so you guys can follow him on LinkedIn right now.
Amy Vaughn:
His name’s Terry, and he does beautiful food photography with AI, like, complementary food photography with AI where he puts together both real life photography, sometimes with AI backgrounds and AI integration. And the reason why Terry is so brilliant in what he does is because he has been doing food photography, lighting, set design, and everything for 30 years.
Pam Didner:
Yeah. Exactly. The tribal knowledge. The tribal knowledge.
Amy Vaughn:
100%. Your marketers know what to ask. They know what dials to turn. They know what to tweak. They know what to ask for. They know when what chat DPT puts out is wrong. And so it’s like if you are totally not well versed in marketing and you think that you can just go in and say, give me a marketing plan, no. Like, you can’t.
Amy Vaughn:
Like, you don’t what you’re gonna get out is total BS, and it’s not gonna be accurate. It’s not gonna be right. Don’t think that AI can replace your marketers. Please please please please please please. And when you have people in AI using, you know, marketing for marketing, make sure that they are marketers themselves because, again, I think that’s the that’s the beauty of what Terry does is because he’s a photographer first and foremost, and he still very much champions doing the art that he does, but knows now really understands AI well, and also still has that legacy knowledge, obviously, of
Pam Didner:
of photography.
Amy Vaughn:
And he couldn’t do one without the other.
Pam Didner:
So That’s true. Just wanted to say that. It’s also your expertise. Right? I mean, you need to be able to judge what AI’s responses are. Mhmm. You can, you have to, you have to call it out. It’s like, oh, this is a BS response. Yes.
Pam Didner:
Or oh, this is very, very good. 100%. That that kind of judgment call comes from your expertise.
Amy Vaughn:
Yes. Agreed. Agreed. Yeah. Because I was even looking at some of his stuff, and he had, like, croissants with, like, the layers and the crumbs. And I’m like, oh. And I used to do food photography for, like, ConAgra and some other food brands, and I was just blown away. Oh my god.
Amy Vaughn:
And I’ve seen other stuff, and I’m like, yeah. No. Like, that’s clear. The lighting is really off. Standard. Is wonky. Like, you can just tell things aren’t right, but, you know, it’s hard. It’s hard to prove what’s real and what’s AI with Terry’s work.
Amy Vaughn:
Alright. Courtney, I see you’ve got a question here from our live listing audience. So thank you, Courtney. She’s calling out the fact that I mentioned earlier that in some cases, different AI agents can work collaboratively with each other. Can you provide some examples of that and how these use cases might be valuable to marketers? We’ll get into this probably more. I’ve got hopefully an upcoming guest
Pam Didner:
one. Yep.
Amy Vaughn:
From Verve. Sarah, who works with them there, will maybe get more into this with us too. And the case that I was sharing in that example, they are more of a tech company. They’re called, I think, CrewAI, if I remember correctly. So you can look them up, and they’re a multi agent platform, and they definitely, look at it from, like, a multidisciplinary role, in the sense of you might have, you know, a, like, a c like, a running of reports type of a thing, like, a financial reports person running something who might then do a run-in a check of, like, financial reports then running a check through I’m trying to think of the other agent that he created. He also created an agent that was, like, the CMO who maybe ran marketing reports. You know? Thank you, Kaylee. Of course, she found it really quickly and dropped it into the chat.
Amy Vaughn:
I love it. You’re so awesome. So you can kinda take a look there and at those. And so what they would do from a collaborative standpoint is actually cross reference so you could basically, create commands and prompts so that whatever each agent is creating reports on, that, that they would then collaborate in the sense of creating an additional cross report reference report so that, like, marketing might feed into the financial reports for so, like, you have you wouldn’t have, like, your CMO like, you have your CMO create, like, the marketing report and, like, how they everything performed from a KPI standpoint. Right? What was spent was that would feed into the financial report. The financial person wouldn’t have all that information and data. So it’s more like they’re kind of talking to one another. How might that work for a marketer? I don’t know exactly yet.
Amy Vaughn:
Like I said, this is, like, kind of new ish territory. But I don’t know, Pam, if you’ve got some examples too of how other agents and how you maybe you’ve seen them or used them in the past. You might work for marketers if you have a multi agent tool that is just marketing or for marketers.
Pam Didner:
I don’t have the multi-agent tools that I’m using, at all. And each agent that I use tends to perform, on its own Yeah. And is more task driven.
Amy Vaughn:
Driven. Mhmm.
Pam Didner:
But I can totally see that each agent talks to each other. So the analogy I would like to use on top of viewers, think of each agent talking to themselves like a data flow. Like, you have like, for example, you have the data from, like, a marketing automation tool that that data needs to float into CRM for you to track kinda like, you know, MQL to marketing qualified leads to SQL, sales qualified lead. So the way that you need to think about how agents talk to each other, think of those agents still as software. They are all as softwares. Well, the technical part of it in terms of how they talk to each other, that’s gonna let the technical person figure it out. But you have to think it’s a data flow from one place to another. That’s great.
Pam Didner:
If you think from that perspective, then it’s not confusing. It’s pretty clear to you. I think that’s true software. They just need to talk to each other.
Amy Vaughn:
I think that’s a great example.
Pam Didner:
Yeah. Mhmm.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. I love it. That’s very helpful.
Pam Didner:
Thank you.
Amy Vaughn:
I know. It’s gonna be so I think that kind of stuff is super interesting because I mean, I already, like, I love automation as well. That could be, like, cool.
Pam Didner:
Yeah. Me
Amy Vaughn:
too. Conversation. Also love it. Alright. Cool. Well, if anybody else has any other questions, we’ve got a few minutes left. Looking ahead, Pam, how do you think AI prompting skills will impact career advancement in marketing and sales?
Pam Didner:
I think this from a perspective of hard skills and soft skills. Yeah. I think to be able to prompt is a hard skill you need to have. Everybody should have that skill set. Okay? The soft skills on the prompt is, like, you need to have a point of view, what the prompting can do and cannot do for you. Yes. That is going to be up to you to articulate well. Mhmm.
Pam Didner:
That is a soft skill. Yep. Right. So that to me is understandable. Once you understand, and by the way, the prompting will continue to evolve. And AI might take on more and more, the stuff that is off your plate. So that soft skill of explaining what AI can do, cannot do will continue to evolve as well. Mhmm.
Pam Didner:
And that having that point of view will also guide your career development. Absolutely. You’re like, oh my god. You know what? AI is kinda like you wrote to my category right now territories right now. Maybe I need to look at slides. I need to look at my job differently or I need to change jobs. Mhmm. So from my perspective I am able to articulate so well. Yeah. In terms of what AI can do for you is super critical.
Amy Vaughn:
I agree. I love it. Take it, embrace it, own it, be the thought leader on it. I love that. Yeah. Be the one who’s, like, has a point of view on it. Yeah. Be an educator.
Amy Vaughn:
I think maybe, you know, Pam, like, you just did. Pick it up and write a book on it. Damn it. And I was like, Courtney Courtney’s like, so helpful. Wonderful discussion. I’m getting Pam’s books. Awesome. Alright.
Amy Vaughn:
We’re having a fun time. We’re down to the last minute, so we’re gonna go through our power round of questions, which are fun little lightning rounds of questions. So what is one AI tool that you can’t live without?
Pam Didner:
One is obviously ChargeGPT or something called Magi, m a g a I. This tool actually had created the interface with, like, Gemini, Copilot, you know, Claude, and Uh-huh. Chargent, and you can pick and choose which one you want to use instead of going to a different platform. I like that quote, m a g a I.
Amy Vaughn:
M a g
Pam Didner:
a I. OpusClip. Yep. And, for example, I create a video, and I have AI to cut different shorts, and I kinda like that. Yeah. That’s fantastic. Not always successful. You still have to
Amy Vaughn:
You still have to
Pam Didner:
do the work. Post production.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. I agree, but Opus is amazing. I 100% agree. Biggest AI fail you fail you’ve experienced or witnessed?
Pam Didner:
My own book. I actually do not want to write this book. I want AI to take all the credit. I wanna say it was created by AI. Oh, that’s so funny. So I actually hire a developer and work with me to write not just the prompts, but code. I have this person, input and the riot code to actually read my blog post library and also read all the videos Uh-huh. I have created it to understand my tone and manner.
Pam Didner:
Uh-huh. And I also created a table of content with a detailed table of contents with a subchapter and also the description for each chapter. Uh-huh. So I got the tone and manner down. I got the skeleton of the outline down, and I tried to provide as much information as possible. It failed miserably. How dare you, AI? How dare you. I failed.
Pam Didner:
And, it failed miserably, and the thing is when they write the 20,000 words, and you will understand this, every single sentence sounds beautiful. It’s very flowery, but when you read it carefully, there’s no substance underneath it. None. Uh-huh. And I was like, god. Damn it. I have to write a book now. This is not acceptable, AI.
Pam Didner:
So here I am. I ended up writing the whole book.
Amy Vaughn:
That’s hilarious.
Pam Didner:
But if you actually do a certain paragraph, like, you have AI rewrite a certain paragraph, they do a pretty good job. Yeah. But if you are looking for AI to run just, like, from page 1 to page 100 Mhmm. No. Not there yet.
Amy Vaughn:
To know. No. Good to know. Oh my gosh. I love that
Pam Didner:
so much. You know what, Amy? You know what, Amy? You might have better success than me. I failed miserably. I was so sad. I was crying.
Amy Vaughn:
Well, you know what, Pam? It’s okay. That’s how we learn. Right? That’s how we grow. And I love that you’re willing to share that. That’s what it’s all about because we all fail. Nobody got to success without screwing up at some point. This was so much fun. Alright.
Amy Vaughn:
We’re just past time. So, folks, you know, if you’ve got any questions, if you wanna reach out to Pam, we will include all of the ways you can follow her, learn more about her. Her website, her books will be in the show notes. Live listeners, those are also in the chat, so make sure you grab those before we close out here in a second. Pam, thank you so much. I knew this would be a blast, so it was wonderful to bring you in and introduce you to our amazing listeners and our Together Digital community. Thank you so much for all the awesome work you’re doing. This is
Pam Didner:
a blast. So much for having me. I mean, wonderful.
Amy Vaughn:
Anytime. Alright, everyone. Well, thank you for joining us this Friday. Hope you all are staying safe, and enjoy the rest of your Friday, and we’ll see you all next week. Until then, keep asking, keep giving, and keep growing. See you all soon.
Pam Didner:
Bye bye. Mhmm. Bye.
