Amy Vaughn:
I’m excited, and I hope that all of you take the chance and the time to come and join us in Cincinnati for that. But for right now, we have the privilege of having a more intimate conversation with Brooke as she shares powerful insights on a very critical topic, challenging the toxic grind culture that has been far too long been glorified. Brooke Daniels brings over 15 years of experience working at top companies like Salesforce Ventures. But beyond her impressive corporate background, she has faced her own battles with burnout and loss of purpose. You know, this is gonna sound familiar to some of you who are listening, so I hope you are tuned in and ready to take some notes and maybe ask some questions, live listeners. Throughout that journey, Brooke has witnessed the transformative power of prioritizing wellness. And now as the founder of the holistic hustle and a Deepak Chopra certified coach. Brooke is on a mission to provide us with actionable steps to break free from the pressure filled hustle mindset.
Amy Vaughn:
She will feel some concrete practices to integrate self care, unlock our potential, and redefine success. This conversation couldn’t be more timely, as a lot of us are really experiencing a lot of what I just shared. And Brooke’s insights are a much needed wake up call, which is why we’re excited to have her here today with us, and we’re excited to have her again as our closing keynote speaker for our conference. So, everyone, let’s get ready to dive in and hear what Brooke has to share. Welcome, Brooke.
Brooke Daniels:
Thank you so much, Amy. I’m super excited to be here and excited to also join you for the conference in October, which will be here in no time. It’s, like, 6 weeks away.
Amy Vaughn:
Oh my gosh. I’m getting, like it’s like that, skydive. It’s scary and exciting all at the same time. I love it. It’s, like, always ends up being the best day, but as anybody who will plan events knows, it doesn’t matter. Every year, it’s just the same anxiety, but then at the end of the day, the day comes and it’s just, it’s a beautiful experience. And, Brooke, as soon as I, you know, received your information and learned more about you and your background and what you do, I just thought, you know, gosh. Yeah.
Amy Vaughn:
She’s so aligned with our community and what we talk about and what we do because we have a lot of very hard working focused driven women that are just dealing with and balancing a lot of things. So, yeah, I couldn’t think of somebody better to have joined us in the Power Lounge, and as I said, to close this out at the conference. But to start off, why don’t you give our listeners a little bit more about your background and your career journey so far, and what kind of led you from Silicon Valley to your current role as the founder of Holistic Hustle?
Brooke Daniels:
Absolutely. And I’ll take a quick tour through, but I always like to start it out and just grounding where I’m from, which is, a town called Rock Hill, South Carolina. I was actually a broadcast major, German minor. So German’s the only other language I’m fluent in beyond English, and at one point, I thought I wanted to be a reporter. And I share that because I think so many times in our life, we feel like we can’t attain something or go somewhere we wanna go because of where we start. And so people are like, you’re a liberal arts major, but you ended up as a venture capitalist? Yeah. Like, yeah. Absolutely.
Brooke Daniels:
Right? Everybody’s path looks different.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
So I always humbly share where my roots started. But after coming back from doing a year long immersion program in Germany, it was like a youth department youth state department ambassador program Mhmm. I stumbled into tech. Didn’t know what SAP was. We were working on a deployment at that time. My manager told me to go buy a book and figure out what it was, which if you know what SAP is, this is a massive technology system. Right? Not like a floppy disk or anything like that. And upon coming back to the US, I started working in telecom sales at AT and T, and they transferred me out to Napa Valley.
Brooke Daniels:
And so I had no idea really that there was this vibrant booming texting happening. It was just so far removed from my life sphere and bumped into who will be my next boss at a Starbucks. And he pretty much recruited me to come work for his tech company that was a private tech company, and that’s how I got into Silicon Valley Tech. And so worked at this pre IPO company, as an early employee. I was employee 65. It was before we took on private equity money, and so a very special time and led the initiative to start our customer success program. And then after that, I went into sales and helped launch new markets. And then from there, after I got my MBA, became a practice group lead.
Brooke Daniels:
And so by this time, the company has gone through all of this m and a activity. We’ve launched all of these new products. And so I’ve kind of been getting a firsthand look, do you know, at what actually happens in high growth tech companies because I’ve just been living it for 7 years. Mhmm. And at that point, I was reporting to the COO. I had a really good run, but I felt like I wanted to see tech at scale and had a really good friend at Salesforce who convinced me to come over, and I joined in a go to market role. And part of this will kinda tie into my journey with burnout, but, ended up going over to a business unit we acquired called MuleSoft. It was at that time the largest acquisition in Salesforce’s history.
Brooke Daniels:
And I helped with some of the joint activities and also went to the market, which is why we were traveling so heavily at that time. I think my peak was probably 75 to 80% of the time, so on the road every single week. Wow. And then at that point was really when I did hit burnout, and I will revisit that burnout story. And that’s what led me to really start thinking about more purposeful work, versus just kinda moving up the sales ladder, which is the path that I was on. And so that’s why I wanted to go into venture capital. I have such a passion for equitable access to capital. I think people are so smart.
Brooke Daniels:
So many people have great ideas, but, unfortunately, we all don’t have the same access to resources or networks. And I’m sure you will tell people, Amy, as a business owner yourself, that is the difference, right, many times between success or failure.
Amy Vaughn:
100%. Absolutely.
Brooke Daniels:
Yeah. That’s what took me to venture capital was wanting to be on the other side of the table. The venture capital industry for people that don’t know it, less than 2% of the 1,000,000,000,000 of dollars that invested go to women and minorities combined.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Combined. That’s insane. Right? And so I just felt like I wanted to be on the side of the table to help create more opportunity for people that look like me and for more women and minorities to be able to get that access and help their dreams come true.
Amy Vaughn:
I love that so much. And this is always my favorite question to ask, and it’s always where we start exactly for the reason you shared is that no one’s trajectory or careers, like, path is ever straight and narrow and set, and you can definitely major in one thing and then end up kind of growing and learning new skills and and transferring them into another. And this conversation comes up over and over and over again, but somehow it doesn’t always sink in for us ladies. So I’m just gonna keep harping on it until maybe at some point, I start hearing it in my 1 on 1 conversations and, like, coaching and venturing within our peer groups. But I love that, and I also love what you’re doing within venture capital. Gosh. That could be, like, a whole nother conversation for sure because, like you said, it’s a very limiting space for those who don’t have, like, access to the connections too. And I think that’s where you and I sync up well too is, like, I’m a huge proponent of networking and relationship building.
Amy Vaughn:
And I think we as women tend to kind of avoid it because, like, sales, it feels a little icky at times to us maybe, but it’s really more of a mindset. But it’s so critical because it’s not always what you know. It’s who you know. You know? It’s being at the right time in the right place with the right people that can take your idea from nothing to absolutely something. And it’s an advantage that I would really wish I do agree with you. I wish more people would have.
Brooke Daniels:
It’s true. We have to adopt that mindset. Mhmm. I feel like earlier for a lot of folks in our career, usually, we hit, you know, a moment where it’s like, oh, yeah. This is but we should just always be selling. And I tell people all the time what the mindset shifts for me in sales Mhmm. I was not thinking of it as like, oh, I’m selling someone something that they probably don’t need or they don’t want, but more so just focusing on the impact.
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
And if it’s not something that you think is impactful to people, then don’t sell
Amy Vaughn:
- Right. Whether it’s
Brooke Daniels:
your own product or someone else’s or service. But if you believe in it, then you know that you’re gonna help someone with something that they could really be struggling with. And so if you can stay in that mindset versus the put feeling like you’re pushing something, it helps a ton.
Amy Vaughn:
I agree. I agree. I found that too for those who struggle with, like, public speaking. I was at a public speaking, like, coaching event with Michael and Amy Port, who wrote public speaking. Check them out. It’s really awesome. And one of the things he said that really helped me, not that I had a ton of problems with public speaking, I just didn’t always like the light shown on me so much when I was dealing with all of that. He was like, think about not the fact that you are up there on stage.
Amy Vaughn:
Think about the experience that you’re creating for people and the moments and the opportunities that you’re creating for folks by getting up and sharing your story and being vulnerable and putting all that you have into it. And that helped motivate me, find the right kind of motivation. I think that’s the key. Right? It’s, like, finding, like, what is your true core, like, value and motivation, whether it be sales or public speaking. And then you’re like, oh, okay. Yeah. I’m doing this to help them reach a goal or feel inspired or feel informed. And so, honestly, like, the nerves kinda go away a little bit more when I think about it from that angle because it’s like, oh, what have I got to lose? I’m only trying to help one out.
Amy Vaughn:
You know? Right. Yeah. In past conversations, you’ve mentioned that during your time in corporate, you had personally experienced some burnout and loss of purpose. So let’s dig into that a little bit more about what that period was like for you, and what made you realize a change was needed. We’ve talked a lot. I mean, this is a women’s organization. We talk a lot about burnout. We’re kinda burnout on burnout.
Amy Vaughn:
We know it looks different for everyone. So how did it look and feel for you?
Brooke Daniels:
Definitely. And I’ll keep it pretty brief. We don’t have to beat it. I know we get to a point where sometimes it’s like, we’re kinda done talking about the problem. We’re gonna talk about the solution, but there is, to your point around public speaking, I do think there is benefit in all of us being able to connect, and, no, we’re not alone with our experiences. So for me, burnout hit in 2019, and, really, it was building over a very long time of just running, sprinting for what was actually a marathon, do you know, in my career? And so at the height, I tell people I was traveling for my job, full time. I was and this was traveling at least, probably at that point, 50 to 60% of the time. I was getting an executive MBA part time, which required FaceTime, so we were in person every 3rd weekend.
Brooke Daniels:
My husband and I were launching a food truck because he was a chef. Oh. And so at the same time, we’re launching a food truck business, and I was a coach for a competitive dance team. And so I was in the studio Wow. On the weekends around this, like, really crazy insane schedule. And, nowhere in my mind did I not think that was normal. Mhmm. And so that compounds.
Brooke Daniels:
You know? You just keep living at that pace, living at that pace. And by 2019, I was absolutely exhausted. And what that looked like was, probably where I started to see it the most was in my personal relationships
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
Because I just had no time for anyone. I had no time for my husband. I had no time for my family. I had no time for myself. At that point, I had a really close friend that was going through a really tough life moment and really needed some support. And, it was at that moment when I realized I was too broken to even be supportive of her . Yeah. That I was like, what do you know what is going on at this moment? That the light bulb started to come on where I was recognizing my own burnout that I was dealing with and loss of purpose, and it was the same thing. I’d really shifted once I came back from Germany and kinda shared that career story and getting into tech.
Brooke Daniels:
Mhmm. I’d really kind of pushed to the side passion because there was just so much opportunity to break into Silicon Valley Tech. And so I just shifted my mindset to say, hey. We’re climbing this career ladder. I was very passionate about getting to the top. That’s just always. I’ve always been ambitious, always wanted to be number 1. That’s just part of who I am.
Amy Vaughn:
Yep.
Brooke Daniels:
And so I just kept working that way. But then you do that for 10 years, and when you pause, you’re just so far away, right
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
From who you are, where you started, what motivated you, and you’re like, how did I even get here? Like, what am I doing? And so, that’s what happened for me. I had insomnia 4 years to the point where I would take sleeping aids to sleep, triple
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Quad latte in the morning and get it going. Yep. And it just crashed. And then it got to the point from that recognition and that friend situation of, like, I actually can’t show up for her because
Amy Vaughn:
Right.
Brooke Daniels:
I’m at a point of distress. That then led to me getting to such a severe point of burnout that I was becoming ineffective at working. So I would wake up, and I’d have a hard time just getting out of bed. And sometimes I’d sit in front of my laptop, and I just could not focus or be productive. And it was terrifying because this way of working had worked for so long. And so I’m already hitting this crash and starting to realize I’ve gotta do things differently. My life is kinda crumbling. Then on the heels of that, we come into 2020 COVID.
Brooke Daniels:
Right?
Amy Vaughn:
Gosh. Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
And during COVID, I was actually working with the healthcare industry. So I was working with
Amy Vaughn:
Wow.
Brooke Daniels:
Pharmaceutical companies. LabCorp was actually one of my clients at that time, and then also working with hospital systems.
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
And so we’re in the mix trying to talk about technology, and every day, we were like, led with empathy. Lead with empathy.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. We
Brooke Daniels:
and it’s like, what does that actually mean in this moment of, like, unknown crisis? And then a few months after that, my older sister passed away. She had a stroke at 39. And so Oh my gosh. The burnout compounded with COVID and just everybody, I think, feeling that exhaustion when we paused. And then grief, all of those things combined is really what kicked off my wellness journey.
Amy Vaughn:
Wow. I am so sorry for your loss. That’s, yeah, that’s so hard. And I can agree with you on that whole sense of blind ambition. I think for so long, right, we’re conditioned and told this is the job, this is the salary, chase it, get it at all costs, don’t look back, don’t put your head up and look around, and it’s so easy to get lost. And I think, one thing I’ve learned throughout the last 4 or 5 years kind of going through, you know, experiences of up and downs with, you know, family and business and life and COVID and all of that as well is that it’s like we’re always in cycles, and you’re always living some kind of cycle, and it’s either a good one or a bad one. And there’s, like, the one that you know you need. So, like, right before we got on this call, everyone, I was talking to Brooke about how to recover from COVID this week.
Amy Vaughn:
So yay. So but then, like, knowing that I need to get back to, like, my basics for a moment before I go, like, whole hog into, like, straight back to where I would like to be, which is working and focusing on our conference, etcetera. And my kids in soccer because we’re coaching this year. Oh my goodness. So it’s gonna be really fun this weekend. But, you know, I think looking at the cycle that you’re in and seeing whether it’s a good healthy cycle, are you getting your sleep? Are you getting your movement? Are you hydrating? Are you getting the time with family that you need for connection? Or is it nothing but work? And I worked to numb for so long. And my burnout was just pure numbness to, like, everything in the world with the exception of anything that had to do with work and, like, work was my fuel. And as soon as work got quiet, I got super anxious because I didn’t know why.
Amy Vaughn:
I was like, why am I here? What do I need to do? Do I have a purpose? Do I have and it’s like, oh, no. Wait. This is not a healthy cycle. This is not a good way to be living. So I think recognizing the cycle that you’re in and all of us were gonna kind of come in and out of that, right, no matter where we are in our wellness journey. But starting to see where you are in that cycle, what does it look like? And then, it’s just as for me, it’s been like a series of constant, like, resets. But I’m excited to hear more about your thoughts on the grind culture too because, you know, my agency background, your background and experience in tech and venture capital, you know, it’s a very common, you know, place for us to be working 60, 70 hours a week, traveling a ton. You know, you put in the time, you put in the FaceTime.
Amy Vaughn:
That’s how you climb. Right? Is that you you are there. And sometimes as a woman, as a mom, eventually, if that’s a part of your plan, becomes a difficult thing. So how would you say that, maybe grind culture became something that you decided to challenge the narrative and then maybe take a different approach on?
Brooke Daniels:
Definitely. I think it was when, again and I hate that so many people have to hit that place of rock bottom. Yeah. Like, I really wanna meet people before, so Right. If you’re not there, you don’t have to go there to change. I really don’t want people to experience what I had to go through. It’s because it’s a climb Mhmm. Out of getting there.
Brooke Daniels:
But, it’s when you start to really question the narrative and realize that those tactics of grind culture aren’t sustainable.
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
Is when you really start to rethink what’s out there. And the research really proves it, right, when you get into it. And so I guess one step back, I I started going into because now I would say holistic hustler is a combination of meditation, mindfulness, purpose strategies, but we combine that with flow state coaching that’s all around high performance, how do we get more done, how do we get into those flow states where we’ve been proven to be 500% more productive.
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
And so for me, when I started actually learning what the research shares with us about what’s actually, effective in productivity and getting more done, and then you look at all of these leaders out there, like, at the top, and we’re like, well, how come they’re so relaxed, but they’re CEOs over all these companies? And, like, what is it they’re doing? And just about all of them will be very clear on their routine, how they start their day. They’re doing something they love. Meditation’s usually involved. Right? Then they’re like, yeah. I’ve got, you know, 4 hours of work time, and then I’ve got this. But they’re already adopting a lot of those practices. And so for me, it was learning kind of stepping out of just what society has told us or just Yes. Messages pushing down in corporate and saying, what is the actual research around productivity, flow states, being connected to purpose? Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
And then you just have to have the courage to do it. Mhmm. And so I feel like we underestimate how much power we actually have in our lives. Maybe especially, as women, if I could say that, because so many people depend on us. Yeah. And we always tend to put ourselves last. And so it’s like, I’ve gotta be the mom, and I’ve gotta be a daughter, and I’ve gotta be a partner, and all these different I’ve gotta be the great friend, and I’m the great worker before I just I am just gotta be. Right?
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
And, just changing that mindset. And then I think it’s one of those things too. It’s like once you dip your toe in and you get a little bit, you’re like, this feels great. Yeah. Like, why? But I’ve been doing this forever. It is that motivation you need to kinda keep doing it. And then for me, it was like, I don’t just want this for myself.
Amy Vaughn:
Yes.
Brooke Daniels:
I want it for my family. I want it for everyone, and that’s when I started kind of on my journey to becoming a coach.
Amy Vaughn:
I love this. I love all this so much. Yeah. Because then you feel like some kinda crazy convert. Right? Because then you’re going around telling everybody, like, you just don’t even know how amazing it is. And it’s like you could actually have more time to sit back, reflect, be with yourself, be with your friends and family, be more present in your day to day, and then still get a crapload done, and then you’re not. People are like, oh my god. I know you’re so busy, and you must be so tired.
Amy Vaughn:
And you’re like, yeah. No. No. Actually, I’m okay. Like, that to me is just kind of finding and really working what I wrote down as you were speaking. You just inspire this idea, this question of, are you running on the right kind of fuel? Like, are you running to be purpose is definitely a stronger fuel for so many of us than and our values than even our paychecks. I know our paychecks are essential, and groceries are expensive, and gas you know, it’s all hard right now. But at the same time, like, at the end of the day, we’re still human, and there’s still needs beyond just even those more basic needs.
Amy Vaughn:
And so to me, it’s like flow state comes when you know that you’re running on the right kind of fuel. And I think holistic hustle, it just sounds like such an awesome and much needed, business and program for people to be looking into and checking out if you’re all sitting here nodding your heads along with us as they’re speaking, going, oh my god. This sounds just like me or hack somebody else that I know. You know? There’s nothing wrong with a little friendly intervention, checking in on your strong friends and saying, hey. I listened to this good podcast. You should listen to it. You know? Just maybe, because I think it’s easier sometimes too for us to see it and others before we even, you know, see it in ourselves.
Brooke Daniels:
Definitely. Definitely. And the power of the present, you spoke about that, but it’s so important. And I can speak for myself, but also clients I’ve worked with. When you really pause and think about how much time we live in the future Yeah. And the bulk of our stress actually comes from thinking about things in the future that haven’t even happened yet. Yep. But the impacts that they have on our body are real.
Amy Vaughn:
Oh, yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Like, simulating all this stress around. Like, I know everybody right now with inflation, everything that’s going on, we’re all thinking about the runway. Right? How much runway we have and replaying this and but when you’re constantly living there, like, actually, today, you know what? Everything’s paid. Yeah. You know? I’m healthy. Everything’s okay. And so being able to embrace those moments without getting too caught up in the future with the worst case scenarios Uh-huh. It’s, like, such a critical component to how we start to decrease stress
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Release anxiety. Most people will be honest. Most of their stress and anxiety comes from either thinking about things in the past Yep. Or thinking about things in the future. It has nothing to do with the present that’s in front of them. And then not only are we releasing stress, but when we get present, all these other amazing things really happen. And so we just did, with Holistic Hustler for book club, The Surrender Experiment Okay. Which is one of my absolute favorite books.
Brooke Daniels:
It’s by Michael Singer. Okay. If you haven’t, have you read that one, Amy?
Amy Vaughn:
No. Sounds like my kind of jam, though. I’ll be checking it out. So was it the surrender what?
Brooke Daniels:
Surrender Experience Experiment. Experiment. It’s so good. It’s literally the reason why my 2024 word is surrender
Amy Vaughn:
Oh, I
Brooke Daniels:
I love it. Yeah. And it’s really this guy who is in grad school recounting his story of how he found meditation
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
And started to surrender to what was in front of him and become present. And he ends up being the CEO of this, like, multimillion dollar company and, like, all these things happen in his life, but it actually came from a point of, like, being present so he could see what was showing up in front of him Mhmm. And then surrendering to those opportunities. And so when you’re the thing is if you’re not present, you can’t do that. Right? Like, if you’re so locked in to, like, what’s on paper? This is the plan. I’m gonna go here. You’re missing all these things, right, that are being kind of signaled to you that are actually opportunities for you. And so The Surrender Experiment is, like, the number one book I recommend around just the power of being present and being looking at tomorrow with optimism versus dread.
Brooke Daniels:
Like, really being excited about the unknown that’s out there because you can surrender to opportunities you can’t even dream of. And I have so many personal stories, Amy, throughout that I just can share, do share with people of how that’s shown up in my life in really big ways. The biggest, biggest things that have happened were never things I could have planned. They happened, Yep. For me.
Amy Vaughn:
I love that so much. Yes. Of course, I’m checking it out. And, Kaylee, thank you so much for dropping the link to the book so swiftly into our chat for our live listeners. We’ll be sure to include that in the show notes as well so all of you can check out the surrender experiment. I think that aligns and makes so much sense. I have a talk that I do about, a mindful approach to burnout that talks about non attachment, you know, non judgment, non attachment, too big proponents there of, you know, mindfulness in general, and it’s, like, really making sure that you aren’t overly attached to an outcome sometimes because that like you said, that that means you could miss another opportunity altogether because you’re so set on the way you think it should go versus the way it’s really meant to unfold. And non judgment meaning, like, as things happen, don’t always assume it’s, like, happening to you.
Amy Vaughn:
It could be happening for you. Like, I was so bummed this week. You know, COVID, I missed 2 speaking engagements and another event that I was really looking forward to, but then I kept thinking, well, you know, for whatever reason, maybe I just wasn’t meant to be there this week. And, you know, at least now, I’m gonna be okay for our conference next month. You know? That’s out of the way. So, you know, it’s really about how you frame things, and it’s like our brain wants to categorize everything. It shortcuts it right to good or bad. And it’s like once you realize that that is something that our brains just do and you just kind of allow, like, this book sounds like it does.
Amy Vaughn:
It’s just like kinda surrender. You know? Surrender. This shit’s gonna happen, folks. We kinda just gotta surrender to it and see where the opportunities lie and what all unfolds from it because you kind of never know what wasn’t really meant to be all along. I love that. I’m so checking that out. I did wanna back up for just a second really quickly, and I wanted to kind of hear a little bit. I wanna dig in for just a second deeper on kind of the hustle and going against the grind.
Amy Vaughn:
It is very much going against the grain because I do feel like, you know, in venture capital, especially, it’s like a space where things they want high growth. Right? They want high growth, high return. I’m kind of curious, like, how have you been able to sort of meet in the middle with those kinds of conversations when you are you know, if you have people that you’re coaching or mentoring that are in that kind of high growth, high stakes business type of situation, but they really do want to maintain that balance and wellness. Like, it almost feels like I don’t know. It’s definitely a cultural thing within venture capital, but it feels like something you just have to automatically surrender. Maybe this is just me making assumptions, but it kinda feels like the case.
Brooke Daniels:
Yeah. It’s definitely a cultural thing, but it’s shifting. And I think kind of what you were sharing with, on purpose, Amy, same with, like, who you do business with. I feel like we’re getting into a space where
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
You really can it takes some work, but there are people out there in just about every space that probably align with your values because, you know, kinda like, Arianna Huffington talks about, right, her experience with literally ending up in the hospital and, like, passing out and hitting the floor because she was so exhausted and kept working. And so there are enough people out there who are starting to be vocal about these experiences and how detrimental it is. The research has never been better. And so I like to lean on that. It’s the one thing I’ll say about venture capitalists. It’s like they like data and facts. Yeah. The same in tech.
Brooke Daniels:
And so I try to really lean on that’s what I love about holistic hustler where I say mindfulness meets flow state coaching and neuroscience.
Amy Vaughn:
I love it.
Brooke Daniels:
Because we really bring in the research.
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
And when you sit down and have conversations because a lot of that pressure in VC is on the founders, but it does start with the VCs and the LPs and the folks that are funding. And there’s all this pressure of, like, what does it mean to be a CEO at a high growth startup. Right? And it’s this image in your mind of, like, what you look like and what you have to do and, you know, all the things. And we really sit down and talk about the impact of overwork. And, one of the facts I share a lot is around the law of diminishing returns that says after we work 50 hours a week, we are not the same as the economic principle. Right? We are no longer getting the same level of output for an input level of time. And so we talk through those things. Then some of it’s practical, which is like, think about how you feel on 3 hours of sleep.
Brooke Daniels:
Mhmm. You’ve been drinking alcohol all night the night before, and then you get up the next morning, you pound a coffee. Like, is that the person that you want making financial decisions for your company? Right? You feel awful. Not saying that we can’t do it when we have to do it, but should that be the norm? Yep. What does that cause? You’re probably more triggered when you work with not only your investors, but your employees. It’s gonna impact company morale. Like, we start to really unpack, do you know Yeah. What the impacts are.
Brooke Daniels:
And then we look at the fact that, like, in a high growth start up, at any company, you’re looking at a 7 to 10 year. Right?
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Marathon. It’s not a short journey. You’re not coming in. Right? It’s multiple rounds. It’s gonna be all this change. We need resilient leaders. And so what does it actually mean to be a resilient leader? Yeah. And so being able to just shift the conversations that way, I have found helpful.
Brooke Daniels:
Unfortunately, there’s still the stigma, I think, in corporate spaces around mental health. Now we wanna talk about supporting people through mental health, but it still seems to only be thought of when you’re in extreme distress.
Amy Vaughn:
Right.
Brooke Daniels:
It’s like, oh, yeah. We point. If something’s, like, wrong, definitely. Go to therapy. We pay for therapy. It’s like, that’s great, but I’m talking about, are your employees well? Mhmm. Right? Are they well? And before we kicked off the podcast today, Amy and I were chatting. I was sharing how there’s this new research that’s come out in a warning from the US attorney general because 41% of parents and this research is from the American Psychological Association.
Brooke Daniels:
Mhmm. But 41% of parents say that they are so stressed that they can’t function on most days. Yep. And so not shocking. Right? I don’t think any of us are shocked.
Amy Vaughn:
No. No. That’s a
Brooke Daniels:
great start now. But how do our work cultures and they’re actually calling it out. How does our work culture support us actually being well? And so Yeah. I like to try to take the conversation from that lens.
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
Unfortunately, sometimes using mental health
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Or even using mindfulness in certain words just triggers the wrong it’s like, no. We’re actually talking about
Amy Vaughn:
Right.
Brooke Daniels:
You want high performance. You need employees to do more with less. Let’s actually give them tools to be successful and get it done, and it starts with having healthy people. You don’t get a good worker without a whole healthy person. And so let’s go there first. And then, you know, you really work with people, we track the progress, and then you kind of build this case. Start usually with a small group, and over time, we expand it. But that’s what I found to be the most effective and getting little change agents in there too.
Brooke Daniels:
So, like, people like you, Amy, and hopefully your listeners, we all go in. And if we can get even one person on one team to give us the space to show how this type of an approach to what, like, well-being as a foundation of high performance works, then at some point, they’re gonna be like, wow. You’re getting so much more done. I don’t care how you’re getting it done. Right. And then I need more of that. And then the team. And so we become the change we wanna see.
Brooke Daniels:
And so Yeah. That is how I’m trying to evangelize those messages and tackle grind culture.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. I’m so glad you brought that article up. I shared the link as well in the live chat for our live listeners to take a look at. I agree. I think it’s fantastic ammo to have that conversation. I know it was also backed by the surgeon general as well. So, I mean, it’s like legit science and studies and years of research that are going behind this. And to know that most parents aren’t able to function on any given workday because of the lack of maybe either mental health care or support that they need for childcare, child rearing, and all of the stuff that we’re dealing with, on a day to day basis as parents.
Amy Vaughn:
If you’ve got school age kids, there are tons of situations and fears there. We just had another school shooting in Georgia. It just takes a toll on us, and it’s like, how are we meant to, you know, continue to function when you get a text like I did last week saying your kid’s school is locked down, and you don’t know why yet. And you’re gonna have to just wait, and you’re not with your children. It’s absolutely terrifying. It’s a different world that we live in with a whole new set of instances of things that we have to deal with and inputs that I don’t know that our parents maybe had to deal with as much. You know? And so I think learning how to find tools you know, I I I realized it’s gonna take time and effort from folks like us, Brooke, to get these kinds of conversations. And those of you who are listening and will take this information and kind of bring it into your own spaces. It’s gonna take time, but the best place to always start, right, is kind of with what we can control.
Amy Vaughn:
Right? And that’s within ourselves. So I’m kind of curious as you kinda started to prioritize your own wellness. What were some of the mind shifts or mindset shifts and practical steps that you began to take to help integrating, self care practice into your daily life and work as somebody who was kind of in this, you know, high pressure, very busy space?
Brooke Daniels:
Definitely. So first, I would say I had to almost redefine my definition of self care a little bit. Mhmm. Because I think for me, I was definitely doing a lot of surface soothing is kinda what we call it.
Amy Vaughn:
I like that. I like it.
Brooke Daniels:
And so do you know? Kinda just scratching that surface spat. Almost like putting a BandAid on it. Do you know? And, like, oh, you know, I’m gonna go out and enjoy a nice meal or maybe I’m gonna get a massage or just do something for, like, temporary relief in the moment. And then I was labeling that as self care, which is nothing wrong with that. Like, that is a form Sure. Of self care, and sometimes that can also help us get into a state where we can actually relax. Right? Sometimes we need a catalyst. You know, people go on vacation or, like, it takes me 2 days before I’m actually relaxed enough to enjoy.
Brooke Daniels:
Yeah. So not knocking those practices, but for me to actually get to restorative rest, right, it had to go a level deeper. And so that’s when I started adding different tools to my self care kit, like meditation, like going for walks and just being out in nature. Yes. I’m also a spiritual person, so having that time to really explore my spirituality and journal and, like, I’ve even done before, it’s called, mindful coloring.
Amy Vaughn:
And so
Brooke Daniels:
I have a color coloring book where I just did that too?
Amy Vaughn:
It’s Oh, yeah. I got a great, like, gel pen ink set. I’m sending you the link because they color so smoothly. It’s so soothing. I’ve gotten a lot of my friends hooked on them. Continue, please. Sorry.
Brooke Daniels:
No. Because you learn people are like, oh my gosh. You just sit there and color. But you learn so much about yourselves. I’ve even done it with leaders. And as you color and and you can do it, I kinda do it guided. It’s like, what are you noticing about the choices that you make? Right? Are you choosing to color fast and furious, but you’re spilling something out of line? Are you Yeah? More meticulous and you want it kind of per but those choices that we make are actually the same choices that we typically make in life and in business.
Brooke Daniels:
Right? And so you learn a lot about yourself doing it. Agree. And so for me, it’s those practices. But on top of that, it’s also and so I recognize a lot of places in my journey probably and I’m still early in my journey, but sometimes I’m further along than other folks. And so I also like to bring in really tactical things. For me, it’s about really living my values as well. And so every day, I challenge myself to live what I believe, to live my purpose. I have a lot of faith and trust that the universe, my higher self, God, whatever you believe, is also helping guide that action because I’m so present and on purpose, and so I live from that place.
Brooke Daniels:
Now tactically, on the flow state high performance side, there are a couple things that I like to to pull in that help with success. And I’ll share some of these concepts, and then we would definitely have to dig into them later, Amy, because some of them are gonna go so against the grain
Amy Vaughn:
I love it. I’m ready.
Brooke Daniels:
Of what we think. So the one that I found that was the most startling but effective, is what I kinda refer to as work compression. Okay. And so there’s all this research out there now that says that work expands to fill the time we have available for it. And so if you give something 3 hours of time, the work is gonna expand to fill 3 hours of time. This is why a lot of in a lot of moments when we procrastinate things, we somehow get it done, right, right on time because we’ve done ourselves just about the right squeeze to get it done. And so the work compression strategy is saying right off the gate, you cut the amount of hours that you work by 25%. So if you’re working an 8 hour workday, now you’re working a 6 hour workday, and we put very hard start and stop times around it.
Brooke Daniels:
Now I recognize this is this strategy is definitely easier for, knowledge based workers
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
Then if you’re in, like, something that’s like an hourly service job, but the same principles can apply to things in your personal life, whether it’s cleaning time and, you know, all the other things you can still apply these strategies to. But by forcing that compression, and you have to commit to very hard start and stop times, you don’t go beyond it. And this is kind of the coaching and guidance that I do, and you can see why community is so important.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
But you force yourself to use other inputs. And so we get stuck in this mindset that one input of time equals one unit of output. And it’s just not true. Right? But by thinking that, the only thing we do is we dial up time. Right? Like, I need more output. What am I gonna do? More time. More time. More time.
Brooke Daniels:
More time. We totally forget about all these other outputs or, I’m sorry, inputs that are available to us, like creativity. All these things that are just underutilized because we over index on time. And so kinda similar to your senses. You know, if one of your senses goes out, the other ones become kind of stronger. And so work compression is like a forcing function to start to force us to rely on other inputs to get things done. And so it’s painful for, like, the 1st week or 2 because you’re just out of your norm. Do you know what I mean? And you’re so used to overworking or you’re so used to one more call or
Amy Vaughn:
but once
Brooke Daniels:
you actually email. One more email. Will you be amazed at how you start to get more creative about solving problems? And, like, even this week, I was working on we’re actually launching a new mini course. So I’m actually teaching this in this new mini course we’re launching next week. And so we’re working through all the materials and the content and the workbooks and all the things together. And something that I wanted to spend x y z amount of time on, it got reduced by an hour. Right? I have a 8 month old at home. That freak happens, you might even hear him crying in the background somewhere.
Brooke Daniels:
That happens frequently. Yeah. But guess what, Amy? I got in there. I got my draft done. I actually leveraged chat gpt and a color couple AI tools, pulled it together, made the tweaks, and I got it done. But you have to use that forcing function sometimes to experience those benefits. And so tools like work compression
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
We talk about, like, a really effective power down ritual to get yourself into a place of rest and to set yourself up for success the next day. And so a lot of times, we get stuck ruminating, do you know, about all the things we have to do and, oh, I gotta do this and that. But if we have a good power down routine where we actually clear all the small things off our plate, we set our day up for tomorrow, we get our goal direct to actions. Like, the most important things that we can be doing are on the calendar first. We give ourselves dedicated time to do it. Those kinds of practices alongside the work of purpose, getting reconnected with yourself, but now we’re changing how we work.
Amy Vaughn:
Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
Wow. Right? Huge, huge effects. There’s other tools in there I could talk about. I love that. The only other one I’ll share super quick is around how we think about cognitive load because a lot of times we think ignoring something or making small decisions, don’t take a toll on us, when in fact, you should think about it, like, as if your brain, your cognitive system, every time you ignore something or make a tiny decision, it’s like lifting a weight.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. That’s
Brooke Daniels:
amazing. Why in the mornings we feel so clear, and then in the afternoons we’re getting groggy and we’re tired. We make over 200 decisions a day just on food. And so, and everybody I talk to, I know I get so stressed about food decisions. Everybody I talk to is like me too. I hate it. Decided when people
Amy Vaughn:
are gonna get sick. When my husband comes home and is like, what’s for dinner? I’m like, I don’t wanna decide one more thing. I’ve done it. No. And so part of what
Brooke Daniels:
We do it around how we can eliminate some of these decisions that are actually kind of predictable. So instead of ruminating around unproductive stuff like food Yeah. When you get up in the morning and it’s like, am I gonna drink water first, or do I need to go to the bathroom, or do I wanna shower? Like, we work through eliminating all of those really small, kind of irrelevant, you know, decisions, and we try to automate them and, like but by doing so, you reduce your cognitive load.
Amy Vaughn:
Yes.
Brooke Daniels:
And so while you’re in those moments, you’re actually getting much better, do you know Mhmm. Work product, more creative. It’s easier to get into flow states.
Amy Vaughn:
Oh, yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
All of these things happen. And so those are some of the more tactical tools on the neuroscience side that we bring in alongside mindfulness.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. We talk a lot about productivity within Together Digital too. Again, a lot of high achieving, hard working ladies. And, you know, we do law. Productivity is, like, something that’s to be of value in our society for sure. But at the end of the day too, like, it’s it’s I think it’s really essential to understand, like, your productivity style and that your ways of being productive are not the same as everyone else’s. And what you were just speaking of reminded me of this, like, philosophy and guidance I was given that was all about eating the frog, which sounds really disgusting because that’s what it’s meant to sound like. It’s like a Mark Twain quote, I believe.
Amy Vaughn:
It’s like the first thing you should do when you wake up in the morning is eat the frog. And like you were saying, all of those little decisions that you’re making, throughout the day, all of those other things, the smaller nap tasks that you use to check off your list when you’re avoiding the big ugly thing that you just need, you know, you have to do to push the needle forward, do that first. So if that’s exercise for you, if the frog is exercise, then make it exercise first thing when you wake up. That way, it’s like you eat the frog, and it’s like there’s no other decisions to make, and that’s the first choice of the day. And then it’s done, and then it frees you up to be able to focus on all the other things. And that could also be, you know, other things within, like, work as well, but I just use the workout as an example because I know that’s a big thing for some. But yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
And if I can add one thing that we do that I think is even eating the frog, which I really like.
Amy Vaughn:
Right.
Brooke Daniels:
It’s research proven that, like, if you take the first step Mhmm. In the action that you’re gonna do the night before, you’re much more likely to do it.
Amy Vaughn:
Oh, okay.
Brooke Daniels:
That’s good to know. Yeah. That’s part of the power down routine is we’re gonna take the very first step of the so if tomorrow, what I need to do in my, like if, like and that’s your flow time. We always talk about our flow time before noon before you’re starting to get kind of weighed down.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
If it’s, I’ve gotta work on a deck. Go ahead and open the presentation, name it, have it open. So when you sit down at your computer, I don’t have to think about getting started. Workout outfit. Lay it out. When I get up, I don’t have to think about picking an outfit out. Whatever that thing is, you take the first step. And
Amy Vaughn:
I love that.
Brooke Daniels:
It’s amazing how Nice. How the mind works, like, subconsciously, but it helps you get going a lot more. I know.
Amy Vaughn:
Right? That’s so cool. I love this so much. Yeah. And, also, when you’re talking about power down, that reminded me of that work commute. I think a lot of us have lost that working from home. We don’t have that decompression between work and home anymore when we kind of shift, like sitting in the car 15, 20 minutes, hour, 40 minutes, however long your drive might have been before. If you’re working from home now more often than not like you kind of lost that, I love the idea of the power down. Alright, let’s bust some myths here for a moment.
Amy Vaughn:
What are some common misconceptions and myths that people have about what it takes to achieve success and fulfillment in their careers?
Brooke Daniels:
Oh, what are some myths? The first one is always that working hard means that we will get ahead. Doesn’t mean that hard work is not required, but it’s not just hard work. And then that’s what I’m saying. Just let’s debunk this myth that time is the only input that gets us output. And I think if we can debunk that, then now we open ourselves up to a lot of different ways of what success can look like.
Amy Vaughn:
Time is the only input that gets us output. Yep. Writing that one down and adding that to my sticky notes that live around my computer to look at every day to remind me when I’m tired. I’m like, really? It is, like, 20 more minutes sitting here, sitting at my screen going, what else needs to be done? Or do I need to spend the time making my list for tomorrow? I love it. Alright.
Brooke Daniels:
Good one. If I could add one more in there, I would just say believing that we don’t have control or buying into this mentality of one day winning. Mhmm. Like, oh, if I just suffer for another 5 years, you know, then I’ll be able to get off the path if I just you know? And because we trick ourselves into actually missing out on life, right, when we live in that space. Right? There is no guarantee that we’re gonna one day win. And, oh, by the way, if you’ve lived, you know, some years, right, you’re gonna know that when you get to that point, if you’re looking in the future, there’s always the next point you’re gonna be looking for. And so we have to break that mentality of one day win
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
And actually recognize, yeah, we actually have a lot of control over our lives right now. And that doesn’t mean you can just quit your job. Right? Like Right. Because, like, oh, wait. My job, I can just quit it. Actually, technically, you could, but I’m not necessarily saying encourage that. But you could do that, but you do have power to start changing your circumstances. Mhmm.
Brooke Daniels:
And so I just like to make sure we remember the power that we actually have. Yeah. To rethink how we want to achieve success.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. I love it. Like, I yeah. I think a lot of us don’t again, it’s just this whole I think, I don’t know if there’s a word for it, like, where it’s kind of, like, all about how society in general thinks about a certain narrative and and whatnot. So that kind of life within our collective minds that it’s like that we don’t always necessarily see life as a series of summits and high points and low points, and it’s like, but that that is life. Like, that’s just kind of what it’s going to be. There’s no ultimate pinnacle. This is it.
Amy Vaughn:
I’ve reached the top. I’ll never mean, really, I hope that’s never the case because I don’t know where you go from there, really. I mean, we’re always going to be wanting for because we’re human by nature where you wanna know what’s next. We wanna go to the next thing. So you see these serial entrepreneurs and people owning multiple businesses and moving from one industry even into another sometimes because it’s a number of chapters and stages and a series of summits that we’re all kind of working through. So I love that reminder that it’s ever not ever one destination. It’s definitely about the journey like all those motivational posters told us.
Brooke Daniels:
It is. So
Amy Vaughn:
So I’m curious. You know, you’ve got a lot going on. You’ve got a little one, and you’re running a business. What ways are you finding that you’re able to model in your own life as an entrepreneur and a leader that balances productivity and wellness?
Brooke Daniels:
Definitely. I’d say the biggest one is honestly Grace Mhmm. For what shows up in front of us. And so that goes back to that feeling, like, constantly coming back to surrender.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Right? And so I was saying this morning, I woke up, baby had a blowout Yeah. Smile on his face, but immediately into the bath. And so that’s like, oh, there’s 30 minutes gone. Do you know? That I thought I’d have. And then Yeah. Our nanny’s daughter is sick, and so she’s out today. And it’s like, woah. And I’ve gotta get on with Amy and, like you know? But in those moments, what do we do? We can panic.
Brooke Daniels:
Right? We can be triggered. We can get upset. We can get frustrated. Or we can say, you know what? This is what’s showing up for me today, and I’m gonna, do you know Yeah. Respond. And guess what? Everything’s gonna be okay. Mhmm. And so, like, I didn’t get a chance to meditate this morning because of that.
Brooke Daniels:
It’s okay. I’ll try to get it in later this afternoon, but it’s just that grace. And Mhmm. Every day knowing is another chance to be better. So if I don’t get it today, then guess what? Yeah. I wake up tomorrow, and it’s another chance to to be better and continue to have that focus on what I want life to look and feel like for me. And so Yeah. I think that is the most important thing.
Brooke Daniels:
And probably second just for me is really staying aligned to my purpose. Mhmm. It’s so hard to, man, with just society and what shows up for us, I think especially in US culture, you’re fighting against, conditioning, one that you’ve lived through your whole life, but that’s constantly coming at you. Right? Oh, yeah. From TV and pop culture and all the messages. It’s just
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Some days I come home and I’m just like, I just need some silence and Yeah. Some peace to get my thoughts together. And so it’s understanding that recognizing maybe in the moment when you start to get on that path, not letting yourself spiral.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. Do you
Brooke Daniels:
know what I mean? Kinda like you have a bad day and you can feel it early in the morning. You’re like, I’m gonna have that bad day, and then you have a bad day. Right?
Amy Vaughn:
And Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
On a day like that maybe it was like right after we got back where I was like, I am filling all the tombs of a bad day. What used to be the old method? Right? What did I used to do?
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Maybe go eat some junk food, maybe have a cocktail, just all these things that are not healthy or productive at all. What did I do this time? I recognized in the moment what was happening.
Amy Vaughn:
Love it.
Brooke Daniels:
I actually went to a tropical smoothie and got myself a smoothie.
Amy Vaughn:
Love it.
Brooke Daniels:
And then I sat in the car and meditated for, like, 30 minutes. And I did one, and I was like, that feels good. And I was like, let me do another. And guess what? Within an hour, back on track.
Amy Vaughn:
Right.
Brooke Daniels:
And so for it’s those interventions in the moment, but you can’t do them if you’re not present. But that has made all the difference in the world for me of not allowing myself to get because I’m still very ambitious. I’m not as competitive as I used to be because I just am in a space of abundance where I know what’s for me, what’s for you, what happened for us. There’s no scarcity out there. We could all win. You should not feel that way, and I think that’s also sales culture. Yeah. So I don’t feel that level of competitiveness, but I’m still ambitious with big goals.
Brooke Daniels:
But I just have this innate trust, hey. I’ve done the best I could today, and that is gonna take me exactly where I need to be.
Amy Vaughn:
I love it so much. And I love that you’re modeling such great, like, just human leadership in that way because I think a part of the hustle culture sometimes is leaders who seem, you know, unwavering and untouchable, and nothing ever happens to them, and they don’t have bad days, and they have all this, And oftentimes, sometimes they do, depending on the leadership, have privilege and all these things. It’s like, okay. It’s so nice to have people who show up, as human as possible, you know, while still strong and resilient, like you said, as leaders to let people know that yeah. Like, literally, blowouts happen, should happen, and then we kinda just have to figure out how to move on with our day because it happens to all of us. And it’s really how we respond and react to all of that. I think that’s so important to model not just for, like, the leader or for us as leaders, but for our own families, for our own children, if we’re happy, you know, happy to be bringing up kids as well. Alright.
Amy Vaughn:
You work on coaching executives. What are some of the most impactful strategies that you’ve seen for organizations, to foster healthier, more sustainable work cultures?
Brooke Daniels:
Well, that’s a big topic.
Amy Vaughn:
It is. I know. We’re coming close to time. Your eyes.
Brooke Daniels:
Sorry. Culture is so important. The number one and most important thing you can do is exactly what you said, Amy, which is model top down behavior.
Amy Vaughn:
Yep.
Brooke Daniels:
And so, literally, in a coaching circle I was doing with a group of women CEOs, there was one woman there, and I just like to share stories with people. Shared that she was working 70 hours a week, but that was down from working, like, 80 or 90 hours a week. So for her, she was like, that’s an improvement, and I know I can’t do it forever. Yeah. But, like, you know, I just feel like this is the only way I can get done what I need to get done at this moment. And she was still leading one start up and launching something else, and so there was a lot going on. But she was like, I just don’t know another way, but I don’t want my leaders to do this. Like, I don’t want my leaders at my company.
Brooke Daniels:
I don’t want my employees to do this. I want them to rest. I don’t want them to be well. I don’t want them burning out. And so how can I do that? We gotta have an honest conversation, like, guess what? They are modeling
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
What they see from you, whether you say it or not. Yeah. You give them permission to give into burnout and overwork because that’s how you model what success looks like. And so Yeah. The first step in any organization, it was the same with another leader I coached in the employee surveys. It came out that the employees didn’t feel comfortable talking to management about their workload being too heavy.
Amy Vaughn:
Yep.
Brooke Daniels:
And he was real like, I have a close relationship with my employees. Why is it that they can’t come talk to me about it? And it’s like, but were you not the one, sir, who worked during your whole maternity leave? Yeah. Like and then you want and so it’s like, oh, but and so it’s those conversations of how are we modeling it first, but then it’s also then get into the place of giving people understanding and you hit on this, Amy, with your team. We all work differently. We all have a different definition of productivity. Mhmm. And how do we create spaces that allow everyone, you know Yeah. To not just show up authentically, but really work the way that works best obviously, within the realm of, do you know, how we have to work as a team?
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
And so an example of that, I had a sales leader in my career earlier that would send me emails about deals, instant messages going off on Slack, text messages, phone calls. No. Right? Like Yeah. So OD with communication that you’re constantly here. You’re constantly being interrupted. Right. Right? And you just can’t work that way. And so you have to create a culture and spaces where people can actually set healthy boundaries.
Brooke Daniels:
For how they show up best, and then you have to honor them. And I guess the third thing I would share just really quickly is get into a place where you really prioritize and start to realize not everything is urgent.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Right? Like
Amy Vaughn:
We’re not saving lives.
Brooke Daniels:
Still many things that are urgent. Yeah. And they dilute the things that are urgent. Right? And so it’s not that, like, occasionally, you might have to do something for, you know, for an urgent situation, but when it’s every single day
Amy Vaughn:
Right.
Brooke Daniels:
Now what does urgent even mean? Right? We’re completely spilling outside of the boundaries. Like and now that’s our new normal. It’s not urgent. Yes. And so just reshifting the mindset on priorities and how those are passed down Yep. And giving employees the permission to say, hey. If you need this by Wednesday, like tomorrow, then I have these other things that I’ve been working on. So what needs to shift, right, so that we can get this done? To free things up.
Brooke Daniels:
Love it. Gotta have those conversations with people, and
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah.
Brooke Daniels:
Just those three things go such a long way in shifting the culture.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. I love it. Fantastic answer. A hot tip, though, for all of you, like, again, if you’re a business owner, I get it. You’re up late at night. You’re thinking of random things. You can schedule Slack messages and emails. So you’re not sending emails in the middle of the night and Slack messages.
Amy Vaughn:
And I have done this in the past where I just think of something, and I’m like, oh my gosh, Kaylee. I need to make sure we get this done tomorrow because it just popped into my head randomly. And I will just schedule it as a Slack for the next morning at 9 AM or 10 AM, like, when I know that she’s likely to be on. So it doesn’t always feel like I’m, like, there in the middle of the night. Like, sometimes I forget because I’m half asleep, but I really try to practice that, like, scheduling the email or scheduling a Slack message to send at normal business hours because sometimes you can’t help the thoughts. You wanna take action when you can take action so you can go back to sleep. You know? But also at the same time, like, you know, like you said, you model that behavior, so much. Alright, folks.
Amy Vaughn:
We’re coming up on time. If any of our live listeners have any questions for Brooke, feel free to drop them into the chat. I know we had, Elizabeth said she was listening from Indianapolis or Indiana, sorry, from Greenwood. So if you have any questions, let us know, Elizabeth. But we’re gonna jump ahead to our power round questions. So these are our lightning round questions. These are kind of a fun chance to get to know you just a little bit better still, Brooke, although we get to know you even more here in the next month. Just curious.
Amy Vaughn:
Are you a morning person or a night owl?
Brooke Daniels:
Definitely a night owl.
Amy Vaughn:
Are you? Alright. Alright. I think it’s always good to know, like, your circadian rhythms. There’s just some kind of unlock that happens and acknowledging that in, like, not just yourself, but your coworkers and partners and family. And this actually helped us with sleep training. I learned my husband very much from the night owl. Me, the morning person, is a perfect match for dealing with a baby that’s awake all night as we were discussing before this too. Alright.
Amy Vaughn:
What is your go to or favorite wellness practice?
Brooke Daniels:
Definitely meditation.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. I love it. I love it. Yeah. For those of you who are afraid to try it, just be graceful. Give yourself grace and just just try it. Try walking meditation. Try different kinds of meditations.
Amy Vaughn:
See what works for you. I agree. It’s one of my favorite go-tos. It’s better than coffee in the afternoon.
Brooke Daniels:
I was gonna say it changed my whole day. Like, the minute I like especially some of the guided ones, the minute I open my eyes and kind of come back, my outlook on the day has dramatically shifted.
Amy Vaughn:
Yeah. It’s amazing. I used to do it in the middle of the afternoon and a little huddle at my agency, and that was my afternoon coffee was to go and just hide and meditate for 20 minutes in one of those huddles. Alright. Best career advice you’ve ever received?
Brooke Daniels:
Oh, if you’re in a corporate company, it is about knowing the currency of that company and then making sure that you are participating in that currency. And so a lot of times, it’s relationships. Might not be at everyone, but, like, how do things get done here? How do people get ahead? And then starting to play that game.
Amy Vaughn:
That’s fantastic. I love it. Alright. Last question. And then if we don’t have any questions from our audience, we will wrap it up. What is one thing that you’re most passionate about outside of your work?
Brooke Daniels:
Oh, well, let’s put all the work stuff in a bucket. So I won’t even talk about the equitable access to VC because that’s a huge passion of mine. That’s awesome. But just on the fun side, it’s actually dance. I grew up dancing, like tap, jazz
Amy Vaughn:
That’s so cool.
Brooke Daniels:
Ballet, danced in college. I danced competitively, and now I coach dance, for fun. It was actually one of the things I had given up at a certain point because I was just so burned down and exhausted. But as of last year, I’ve been able to bring that back into my life, and I absolutely love it.
Amy Vaughn:
I love it. Yeah. Bringing that passion back. I love it. I think that’s always a telltale sign for me . My husband asked me about 6, 7 years ago before I came into this role, “Do you ever have any hobbies? And I was like, oh, I don’t. I don’t have any hobbies, but now ask me, and it’s very different. It’s like hiking. It’s yoga.
Amy Vaughn:
It’s the adult coloring. It’s meditation. It’s travel. It’s, yeah, it’s so much reading. Oh my god. I’ve been reading so much. So excited to grab the book that you recommended, the surrender experiment. But, yes, I think that’s a great way to kind of wrap up the day.
Amy Vaughn:
I hope all of you that are listening have taken something helpful away from all of this. I think all of this is such a relevant continuing conversation. It’s been kind of a theme throughout our last few episodes. So, you know, if you can’t get enough of this stuff, keep listening. Check and take a listen back to the one we’re gonna publish here soon with Diane. Talk a lot about this as well, because it’s all interconnected. Right? Our ability to achieve what we feel is success, our own personal defined success has so much to do with, like you said, us being able to show up, feel well, and feel whole. And, as, you know, as much for you, Brooke, I think it’s a passion for me to help people find that fulfillment and feel that, because we all deserve that.
Amy Vaughn:
So thank you so much for coming on today and sharing all of your wisdom.
Brooke Daniels:
Absolutely. It was great. Thank you for having me, Amy, and I’m so excited to see you in person and meet the community in just a couple of weeks. It’s coming up fast.
Amy Vaughn:
I know. It’s gonna be fantastic. It’s gonna be a wonderful day. Alright. Well, thanks everybody for listening, and until then, until we see you next week. Everyone, keep asking, keep giving, and keep growing. See you then.
